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Old 04-11-2013, 11:07 AM   #225
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Not gonna answer that lol.

That sir, is called baiting. And I am no fish. Lol
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:20 PM   #226
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

I've done a few tests with coach profiles and at least from my perspective, there's no impact on AI playcalling whatsoever. Also, it seems like the effect of shot locations is quite a bit different from the individual values we can globally edit with game sliders.
For example, 3pt maxed out in coaching profiles leads to more long range attempts, but not in an extreme way. Compared to maxing out 3pt in game sliders, or giving a players some high values manually, the effect appears to be more subtle.
So maxing out every shot slider in coaching profiles might be an idea to make teams play more fast paced without disturbing the overall distribution of shot attempts.

About playcalling in general, I have tested different touches scales in my association, using teams with mostly generated players.
I've been using a touches scale somewhat based on usage% lately, so most players are between 10 and 30, which should not make much of a difference if the distribution is correct.

Point guards do not get any touches if they're within this scale. So if my 2 best players have a touches value of 30, one of them being the starting PG, he gets no plays called for him (the same is true for fantasy draft rosters btw).
What's strange is that if I scale PGs differently, starting at 30 up to about 50, the AI actually calls plays for them, but overall play distribution gets kind of messed up by that.

Now even without any set plays called, PGs will still get involved since after plays breaking down, the CPU will often pass to them to take bailout shots or force a drive. But if I truly want to run the offense to a PG in a scenario different from default rosters, due to generated rookies or simply trades at the PG position, the only way is to work around a touches tendency that is not implemented correctly.

So right now, excluding PGs from the overall scale kinda works, but I'm not satisfied at all. The next step is to find out if the same differences exist for other positions, but maybe less pronounced.

It's kind of the same thing looking at Slimm's results using the Heat. Both test runs, no plays being called for Battier/Chalmers. Of course, most plays should be for Lebron/Wade, but looking at touches values, it makes no sense that the AI ignores the 2 completely.

In theory, shouldn't it all even out in the long run? So for example, giving Wade/Lebron both 90 touches and Bosh/Chalmers/Battier 60, wouldn't that mean in general, that plays should be distributed in a way that the sum of plays called for Lebron and Wade equals the sum of plays called for the other 3?
Seems logical to me looking at how the values are scaled (Wade+Lebron=180, Bosh/Chalmers/Battier=180). Will test this if I have the time.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:02 PM   #227
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by mango_prom
I've done a few tests with coach profiles and at least from my perspective, there's no impact on AI playcalling whatsoever. Also, it seems like the effect of shot locations is quite a bit different from the individual values we can globally edit with game sliders.
For example, 3pt maxed out in coaching profiles leads to more long range attempts, but not in an extreme way. Compared to maxing out 3pt in game sliders, or giving a players some high values manually, the effect appears to be more subtle.
So maxing out every shot slider in coaching profiles might be an idea to make teams play more fast paced without disturbing the overall distribution of shot attempts.

About playcalling in general, I have tested different touches scales in my association, using teams with mostly generated players.
I've been using a touches scale somewhat based on usage% lately, so most players are between 10 and 30, which should not make much of a difference if the distribution is correct.

Point guards do not get any touches if they're within this scale. So if my 2 best players have a touches value of 30, one of them being the starting PG, he gets no plays called for him (the same is true for fantasy draft rosters btw).
What's strange is that if I scale PGs differently, starting at 30 up to about 50, the AI actually calls plays for them, but overall play distribution gets kind of messed up by that.

Now even without any set plays called, PGs will still get involved since after plays breaking down, the CPU will often pass to them to take bailout shots or force a drive. But if I truly want to run the offense to a PG in a scenario different from default rosters, due to generated rookies or simply trades at the PG position, the only way is to work around a touches tendency that is not implemented correctly.

So right now, excluding PGs from the overall scale kinda works, but I'm not satisfied at all. The next step is to find out if the same differences exist for other positions, but maybe less pronounced.

It's kind of the same thing looking at Slimm's results using the Heat. Both test runs, no plays being called for Battier/Chalmers. Of course, most plays should be for Lebron/Wade, but looking at touches values, it makes no sense that the AI ignores the 2 completely.

In theory, shouldn't it all even out in the long run? So for example, giving Wade/Lebron both 90 touches and Bosh/Chalmers/Battier 60, wouldn't that mean in general, that plays should be distributed in a way that the sum of plays called for Lebron and Wade equals the sum of plays called for the other 3?
Seems logical to me looking at how the values are scaled (Wade+Lebron=180, Bosh/Chalmers/Battier=180). Will test this if I have the time.
Looking over his results I can see that Chalmers will never get a play called for him without a pick man. Battler would eventually get a play called for him.

Your point gaurd problem is interesting for the particular scenario you spoke of on the other thread. Raising the scale does help especially when there are point gaurd specific ISO plays you want to see. But pick and roll is definetly a two man gig and I'm curious what the ratio might be to ensure Brand/Nash/Chandler get their looks.

I was thinking about your problem the other day and I remember you said that "if there is a pick play called its for Melo."

Is Melo eligible to bring the ball up court? If so and if his priority to be a pick and roll ballhandler is number 1 than that could be where all of Brand and Chandlers touches are going?

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-11-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:45 PM   #228
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Is there a site you can goto that shows you player hotspots and tendencies? How do you determine what kind of play types to give a player and no one answered my question about the original coaching profiles?
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:53 PM   #229
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0DZGiFT
Is there a site you can goto that shows you player hotspots and tendencies? How do you determine what kind of play types to give a player and no one answered my question about the original coaching profiles?
NBA stats, basketball reference and my synergy sports (paid service) all show players hot spots and can be use for tendencies ... the last one being the most complete, even shows (stats & videos) scoring/defense by context/play types ... for further info on editing, also check: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...er-making.html.

If you asked about obtaining default profiles values, just download the 1st official roster from 2kshare and make a spreadsheet by copying the values from the game (2k almost never updates them, so those should be equal to default) ... you can also wait to whenever red mod center (reeditor) comes out and access such values from a respective roster file.

Last edited by ffaacc03; 04-11-2013 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:41 PM   #230
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffaacc03
NBA stats, basketball reference and my synergy sports (paid service) all show players hot spots and can be use for tendencies ... the last one being the most complete, even shows (stats & videos) scoring/defense by context/play types ... for further info on editing, also check: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...er-making.html.

If you asked about obtaining default profiles values, just download the 1st official roster from 2kshare and make a spreadsheet by copying the values from the game (2k almost never updates them, so those should be equal to default) ... you can also wait to whenever red mod center (reeditor) comes out and access such values from a respective roster file.
Good looks my man
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:59 PM   #231
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Damn . . . This is gonna taste so bitter. Ok . . . Like a band-aid,

Drive the lane is 100% an off ball tendency.

It heavily influences what the ball carrier does but in no way does it make the ball carrier drive the lane.

It has been stated many times in multiple threads but this game is just too agro when it comes to aggression.

However here are the reasons I clung so tightly to my false beliefs.

3pt shooters deciding on driving: both ray and miller would choose to run off the 3pt line instead of shooting. This was happening because I lowered the offensive Tempo to 0 and there was still "too much" time in the shot clock.

Ball handlers pushing on the break: this should have been obvious to me but with everyone at 100 it would be weird to expect a ball handler to ignore 4 teammates screaming and waving their arms as they fly up the court. What is interesting about this is, it only takes 1 person that is not a point guard to complete ruin a game. If Chalmers has a chance to pass it to a cherry picker he will. This is the origin of the crazy lob pass.

Players driving despite us trying our best to stop "all driving": there are a bunch of contributing factors for this, the tendency to attack the basket, a low pull up or shoot from triple threat tendency, offensive awareness. But there is one important one you can't change. Inside shot. The higher a players tendency to take an inside shot the more he is going to want to score from there (I know, duh), this is why Dwayne and Lebron insist on driving despite the fact that we destroyed every reason they would have for driving.

Ugh that hurt so much to type. I spent a solid 8 pages ademently defending how wrong I was lol.

Oddly this doesn't change much of the editing I planned on,

What I'm probably gonna do is lower the scale to 25 and reserve a 25 rating for hustle guys like Splitter and Wallace. Literally all aspects of aggression can be better controlled through coach profiles.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-11-2013 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #232
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Players driving despite us trying our best to stop "all driving": there are a bunch of contributing factors for this, the tendency to attack the basket, a low pull up or shoot from triple threat tendency, offensive awareness. But there is one important one you can't change. Inside shot. The higher a players tendency to take an inside shot the more he is going to want to score from there (I know, duh), this is why Dwayne and Lebron insist on driving despite the fact that we destroyed every reason they would have for driving.

Ugh that hurt so much to type. I spent a solid 8 pages ademently defending how wrong I was lol.

Oddly this doesn't change much of the editing I planned on,

What I'm probably gonna do is lower the scale to 25 and reserve a 25 rating for hustle guys like Splitter and Wallace. Literally all aspects of aggression can be better controlled through coach profiles.
An high inside shot tendency for backcourt players(added to drive the lane and attack the basket) is the main reason of those forced,stupid,senseless,frustrating dribbling moves in the paint by the cpu!
Other factors are on ball defense and ball handling rating also.

And I agree too that drive the lane is a very important off ball tendency.
Keep up the great work!
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