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Old 04-13-2013, 11:39 AM   #297
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by STLRams
Ok, cool. Man that passing back and forward between the center and power forward drives me crazy. So I need to lower the inside and close shot in the teams coach profiles, ok. So I wanted to use hoopdata.com to implement the teams shooting tendencies from the locations. What formula are you guys using to implement the inside,close, midrange and 3point shot tendnecies for each team? Maybe the attempted amount from each location that hoopdata.com has multiplied times 3? IDK
The low inside/close is gonna be the norm given the games tendency to be beastly inside.

Mine vary from team to team but for the most part it resembles 0/0/50/50

I like keeping inside higher than close because it makes guards get all the way to the rim instead of shooting a floater over the defense.

For instance the heat profile I have (so far) is:

32 inside /higher than close to encourage guards to get to the rim
17 close
70 mid /less points in the paint
68 3pt /I need more 3s

It's basically the same mindset but what is really going to vary from team to team is tempo, fastbreak and run plays.

It's important to note going forward, that while I say this is the coach profile that gives me the most accurate gameplay stats it will most certainly not be universal.

Following this thread you can see how much this strays into the territory of roster editing, if your roster plays dumb then no coach will fix that.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-13-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:40 PM   #298
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
The low inside/close is gonna be the norm given the games tendency to be beastly inside.

Mine vary from team to team but for the most part it resembles 0/0/50/50

I like keeping inside higher than close because it makes guards get all the way to the rim instead of shooting a floater over the defense.

For instance the heat profile I have (so far) is:

32 inside /higher than close to encourage guards to get to the rim
17 close
70 mid /less points in the paint
68 3pt /I need more 3s

It's basically the same mindset but what is really going to vary from team to team is tempo, fastbreak and run plays.

It's important to note going forward, that while I say this is the coach profile that gives me the most accurate gameplay stats it will most certainly not be universal.

Following this thread you can see how much this strays into the territory of roster editing, if your roster plays dumb then no coach will fix that.
Ok, I agree that the inside should be higher than the close shot tendency for the team coach profiles, since statistically teams take more attempts with inside shots than close shots and also it help with players finishing drives to the Rim. But that what I was wondering for about for Inside,Close mid, 3point, what formula or info did you use for the Heat to get those numbers. Im sure the 0/0/50/50 probably will work, but I want to have each teams coach profiles settings different from each other, just looks and feels better to me. Also temp fastbreak and run plays, I'm sure these 3 things will be huge in the coach profiles to make teams play different from each other, do you have a general idea on what values you want to give to the teams.
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:26 PM   #299
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

When Tomba put out his first slider set in 07 it was meant with a lot of controversy. It was a very strange way to edit and adjust the game but what I took from that and what I've tried to implement in every 2k game I've purchased since then is the idea that it should not be too hard to get around your defender.

In real life Basketball you see bad players driving to the lane all the time, they don't get bumped at the freethrow and pick up their dribble, they make it all the way to the hoop. What separates the Jared Dudleys from the Kobe Bryants is what happens when they get to the rim. Do they posterize their defender or do they get their **** sent flying into the third row? Do they make an accurate pass to the guy spotting in the corner or are they stripped on the way in causing a turnover when the ball bounces off their knee?

Initially I went to Tomba's thread to get an idea as to how I could see these results but I feel like he went more left field than usual this year.

The easy answer would be to lower on ball defense but that causes these major problems:

Force Field - when on ball defense is 70 or lower an invisible bubble between you and your defender forms. The ball handler is making his dribble moves and the defender is mirroring him at a two foot distance that looks really strange.

Defensive pressure - I found this out when I was playing with the classic teams. The highest rated defender on the Utah jazz was Bryan Russell with 80. When I turned defensive pressure all the way up in the coach slider all the defenders except for Russell gave their man way to much room (especially Stockton and Hornececk on the perimeter).

Contact animations - the physics engine for 2k13 is down right awesome. It is on full display when you see Thabo guarding Kobe. It's beautiful to watch a high rated ball handler go up against a high rated defender. We rob ourselves of that when on ball defense is lowered into 70. Contact animations do not initialize and the guy driving to the hoop is "stuck" on a guy that isn't really playing defense but is somehow managing to stop your progress.

So what I've done is drastically raise the ball handling for every guard and small forward on every team.

My rationale behind this is every guard in the NBA is a great ballhandler, Steve Blake would ball you up at a YMCA he deserves a 95 rating. Royal Ivey does not make waves in the NBA but he is still your first pick on your playground pick up game. He deserves a high rating.

My initially test run of this gave me good results but here is a major problem I ran into

The Mismatch mechanic - I had previously thought the game acknowledged mismatches by position if a guard is on a center then the play they would have called gets over written and the CPU posts up. Conversely if a center is on a guard then an ISO will be called .

However this is not the case, the mismatch mechanic and the switching on screens mechanic is statistics based. If the ballhandler has significantly higher handles than the on-ball defense of the man guarding him then the computer will Iso the mismatch. I found this out when I gave Jeff Foster an 85 in ball handling (I know, I'm dumb). Even though Foster had no touch tendency and very little shot tendencies, without fail, whenever he was subbed in the CPU insisted on a High Post ISO. Because I had all of his dribble moves at zilch he literally sprinted into his defender (no contact animation) until he was close enough to put up a bad shot.

This is why Tomba's previous model of high handles low on-ball d won't work.

Also most of you should be able to see instances of this in your Roster. Power Forwards with good handles like Garnett and Bosh occasionally end up in this situation. I had to turn play vision on to see this because MIA High (the play in the Heat's playbook) and a wing Iso are very similar but through play vision I could see that they were calling a 'quick ISO' for Bosh when they really shouldn't be. But because his Handles were much higher than the perimeter D of Reggie Evans the CPU declared it a mismatch.

I'm still debating what I want to do with power forwards and Centers that aren't good ball handlers but I'm definetly going to take more of a letter grade approach to on ball d. Meaning if Reggie Evans is a D defender on the perimeter then he get a 68 not a 35.

Another problem is there are various little factors that contribute to how well a player can get past his defender. Strength quickness and Speed. If anyone would like to help me test this that would be great.

SLIMM just loves ruining my ideas. Every since he mentioned that he plays with quickness on 0 to better see a contrast between sprinting and walking I've been doing so. It was a great move because now I'm seeing more animations of players slipping and putting their hands on the ground when they're trying to make quick cuts, but it drastically cuts down on the open court agility of ballhandlers, I'd rather not butcher the quickness rating of every player so I may have to use a slider. Ugh.

Anyway, feel free to point out glaring holes in my logic I need the criticism to fine tune this idea but so far it looks beautiful.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-13-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:32 PM   #300
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by STLRams
Ok, I agree that the inside should be higher than the close shot tendency for the team coach profiles, since statistically teams take more attempts with inside shots than close shots and also it help with players finishing drives to the Rim. But that what I was wondering for about for Inside,Close mid, 3point, what formula or info did you use for the Heat to get those numbers. Im sure the 0/0/50/50 probably will work, but I want to have each teams coach profiles settings different from each other, just looks and feels better to me. Also temp fastbreak and run plays, I'm sure these 3 things will be huge in the coach profiles to make teams play different from each other, do you have a general idea on what values you want to give to the teams.
Still testing that last part. I want to know how much of an impact, if any, tempo has on the fastbreak. Once I know that then that will take care of those two.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:07 PM   #301
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

I just read through the last few posts but don't have time to test until Monday at best. I have a big project at home I HAVE to get done and I also have yard work to do later.

What are we testing right now? I can't even remember. For my mental well-being, we REALLY need to start looking at one thing at a time.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:16 PM   #302
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Are there any specific sliders you guys use since you edit the players yourself ?
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:31 PM   #303
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by slimm44
I just read through the last few posts but don't have time to test until Monday at best. I have a big project at home I HAVE to get done and I also have yard work to do later.

What are we testing right now? I can't even remember. For my mental well-being, we REALLY need to start looking at one thing at a time.
Haha, well I'm curious to know what you think about the games you watched/played with the edited pull up/AtB tendencies. Did it look better? What changed?

For testing, In the name of finishing up the Heat, I want to really delve into Tempo and Fastbreak, to see what alterations occur. For instance turning up tempo makes them shoot earlier in the shot clock but turning up a coach profile shooting slider makes them shoot more from that area, is that amplified to an outlandish degree when doing a coach profile for the Nuggets who by all accounts should have a break neck tempo.

With mid and 3 at 50 when the tempo is cranked up, does that mean that is the only thing we'll see in the first ten seconds.

But dude take a break, lol you've put in work. Ill be detailed with the results and if theres something I'm being nutty about I'm sure everyone will let me know.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:41 PM   #304
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by G0DZGiFT
Are there any specific sliders you guys use since you edit the players yourself ?
SLIMM posted his sliders earlier in the thread (try page 17).

I'm going in raw with no sliders (minor alteration to defensive rebounds for humans and adjustments made for Allstar difficulty).

He is on PC while, I'm reppein team X-Box.

And I'm beginning to notice a discrepancy in the amount of threes I get versus what he gets. I'm curious to know what other differences we'll find between console and PC but I'll worry about that when it comes up.
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