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Old 04-13-2013, 10:13 PM   #329
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by qpc123
I'll look into this once I get to a team with a dominate post player, the need for that big a difference could explain why CPU Shaq is never really the force he should be.
But you don't want the mismatch mechanic to kick in when there is an actual center guarding Shaq. The game adapts well enough to threats, they front him they'll try to knock away the entry pass they'll double when he gets hot.

You definitely don't want the game to think of Shaq as a "mismatch" by definition. Then the CPU offense will override every play that could have been called and do a "quick post" for Shaq. It would treat Shaq as if Derek Fisher were guarding him and you don't want that.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:17 PM   #330
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by Hyperballer21
So what can we determine from these numbers?

Perimeter
-Should the worse ball handling perimeter player have a 70 ball handling rating?
-Should the worst perimeter defender be 65?
-Should the best PF/C perimeter defender be at 65?
-Should the best ball handling bigman be able to take their opposition off the dribble? That would me most bigs would have their off ball D no greater than 35, right?

Post
-Lets say Shaq has 99 post offense, does this mean most players would have 49 of less post defense since he was literally a nightly mismatch in the post?


Side note: I plan to implement most of these findings into a roster. Great work everyone who contributed.
Was just about to send you a link to this thread.

I'm going to try this out for myself (changes to the ball-handling and on-ball defense) and let you know how it goes. With the way you have the layup attribute adjusted it'll be interesting to see if more blocks are able to get generated due to the poor attribute? Also, if the ball-handling overrides the shot tendency function (which seems to be the case if the game engine recognizes it as a mismatch) this should also cut down on the number of unneeded dribble pull-ups is my guess at this moment.

On to testing!

Edit: I'm also thinking about having a gap of 15-20 between ball-handling and off-ball handling. This should, in theory, let guys who can drive with the dominant hand drive, but when forced to go to the opposite side are forced to pick up the dribble with good defense (I'm hovering between 75 and 80 for most players while the dominant defenders get 85). My reasoning for this is that star players are going to have between 95-85 ball and off-ball handling while everyone else gets around 85-80. That way if you use a dominant defender you can still lock up an average ball-handler but good scorer(Like a Paul George) by playing good defense and forcing them to go to the opposite hand.

Now if only 2k had given us the option for guys to settle for contested jumpers if you force them to go to the opposite hand (COUGHJAMESHARDENCOUGH).

Last edited by DukeC; 04-13-2013 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:24 PM   #331
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperballer21
So what can we determine from these numbers?

Perimeter
-Should the worse ball handling perimeter player have a 70 ball handling rating?
-Should the worst perimeter defender be 65?
-Should the best PF/C perimeter defender be at 65?
-Should the best ball handling bigman be able to take their opposition off the dribble? That would me most bigs would have their off ball D no greater than 35, right?

Post
-Lets say Shaq has 99 post offense, does this mean most players would have 49 of less post defense since he was literally a nightly mismatch in the post?


Side note: I plan to implement most of these findings into a roster. Great work everyone who contributed.
These number represent (I haven't tested them for accuracy but they seem like a good starting point) what the CPU considers a mismatch. In the truest sense of the word mismatch. Like a quadriplegic girl guarding Kobe mismatch.

The mechanic should only come into effect when your getting back on D and your point guard ends up guarding the center. The mismatch mechanic kicks in and the CPU calls a quick post up for the "mismatch"
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:28 PM   #332
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

I think the worst perimeter ball handler rating should be 90

You can look at it like a letter grade. I don't think any perimeter defender in the NBA is below a C . . . So 75 should be the low end of the spectrum. And really besides Steve Nash lol who is really that bad on defense.

Perimeter defense for bigs seems good at 65 with special treatment considerations for athletic bigs. I'm probably gonna play around with it on higher settings because Dirk is a big monkey wrench in this plan I have. I want the physicality of guarding Dirk to look good (no bubble defense) but I don't want to give higher ratings to some of the people that would be guarding him, Levoy Allen comes to mind.

Did you say off ball d??? Is there a slider for that??

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Old 04-13-2013, 10:40 PM   #333
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
I think the worst perimeter ball handler rating should be 90

Did you say off ball d??? Is there a slider for that??
No worse than 90? What about 85?

My best perimeter defender is going to be an 85. Would that scale work? If the ball-handling is matched or lower than on-ball D do you get the bump backed animation?

I think he meant to say on-ball D of big men.

Question what do you feel the off-hand rating should be?

What do you feel like athletic big men who face up should be? 70-75 ball handling? 80? To get reliable contact or a "win" dribble animation is 75 on-ball d and 80 ball handling the minimum threshold?

Last edited by DukeC; 04-13-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:57 PM   #334
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by DukeC
No worse than 90? What about 85?

My best perimeter defender is going to be an 85. Would that scale work? If the ball-handling is matched or lower than on-ball D do you get the bump backed animation?

I think he meant to say on-ball D of big men.

Question what do you feel the off-hand rating should be?

What do you feel like athletic big men who face up should be? 70-75 ball handling? 80? To get reliable contact or a "win" dribble animation is 75 on-ball d and 80 ball handling the minimum threshold?
Please test because I am curious to know what specific numbers lead to "for sure this guy can get around his defender". Right now I'm herp derping my way through this on the "higher is better, scale".

Though for off hand dribbling I definitely think this should be reduced by 20 points or so for the more unskilled players (duhon, Ivey, Neal). Not so much that they pick up there dribble but a hard bump. Having ball security lowered into the 30 sometimes leads to them just losing their dribble so that is a better option (to me) than "I forgot how to dribble."

And for big men,

I'm not sure if this is an isolated incident but I saw Ostertag bring the ball to half court once (Stockton fell down when Jordan missed a lay up and Ostertag got the rebound). I hope that was not a result of him having a 85 for ball handling but I've since lowered ball handling for people that definitely don't deserve into the high 60s.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-13-2013 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:01 PM   #335
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Please test because I am curious to know what specific numbers lead to "for sure this guy can get around his defender". Right now I'm herp derping my way through this on the "higher is better, scale".

Though for off hand dribbling I definitely think this should be reduced by 20 points or so for the more unskilled players (duhon, Ivey, Neal). Not so much that they pick up there dribble but a hard bump. Having ball security lowered into the 30 sometimes leads to them just losing their dribble so that is a better option (to me) than "I forgot how to dribble."
For sure. On the safe side I'm probably going to have the athletic big men who face up have about 75-80 ball-handling. The best on ball D big men are going to be at around 65-70 I think. The worst is going to have a minimum of 50. Hopefully I can generate some contact on the drives to make them get freethrows instead of a clear lane dunk everytime. We'll see how this goes. Currently on the Bobcats right now.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:13 PM   #336
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

I see now that the majority of defenders are going to be in the 75 range. A couple are going to be in the 80 range and very few are going to get 85 (as far as on-ball D). The elite ball-handlers all have 95-85 ball-handling. It'll be interesting to see if the threshold to win the ball-handling animation is 10 points or more? Maybe even 5?

Can't wait to test this CPU vs CPU.
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