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Old 04-14-2013, 08:43 PM   #417
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

To hype and the others responding to the post game invite, I'm getting your messages seperately can you reply to the topic instead of quick reply, I think that should fix it. I'm new at this.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:49 PM   #418
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Going back and forth with Hyperballer just a while ago we may have found something conclusive. It was occurring way too frequently to be an anomaly.

Coach Profiles (Hawks and Bulls):
Take Inside: 1
Take Close: 1
Take Mid-Range: 1
Take 3pt: 25
Attack The Basket: 1
Look for Post players: 50

I used qpc123's Dribble Tendencies for both the Hawks and Bulls players. I modified the On-Ball defense of the Hawks and Bulls players to 55 for average defenders, 60 for good defenders, and 75 for lockdown defenders. I also used the ballhandling rating changes suggested by bigtrey so everyone has at least 80 ballhandling. This also included the big men like Josh (who has 80 ballhandling) and Boozer (who has 75) because they are primarily faceup big men.

We used the scale of 65 Low Post Defense (for Noah and Horford) and 50 Low Post Defense (For Boozer and Smith). We also increased all 4 of those players Low Post Offense to 80. This was to gauge whether we could get more low post plays called for the mismatch (such as Boozer on Smith and vice versa) and whether or not it was a set play or a quick post up.

In the 1st test:

The Hawks ran a total of 9 post plays in 1 half on 5 minute quarters. This is not counting the 4 Iso plays ran for Josh Smith to attack Boozer's matador defense. Josh Smith got 6 of those touches. Horford got 2 and Zaza Pachulia got 1. The majority of those touches (7) were against Boozer in the post. Only 1 was against Noah. 1 was where the Hawks had Josh Smith posted up on Bellinelli but the Bulls sent an immediate double team (The Post O and Post D difference was 50....)

The Bulls ran 1 post play for Noah, while 3 were called for Boozer (1 of which the play just broke for some reason). The post play for Noah had Horford guarding him and the 3 post plays for Boozer 2 of which had Smith guarding him and the other he had Zaza guarding him. More plays might have been run for Noah, but he managed to get in early foul trouble, so I'll do a second test shortly and post the findings.

Edit: Also the Gameplay was on Pro Default 5 minute quarters. Only went to Halftime. Will see if I get more spread out touches for a full 4 quarters.

Last edited by DukeC; 04-14-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:08 PM   #419
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Is there a post with his dribble tendencies ?
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:20 PM   #420
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
So when you say "Pull up jumper"......

Are you looking for the offensive player to try to beat his man, and if he fails he then look to "pull up" or if he beats the first man but help is between him and the basket he then pulls up.

or

If he is closely defended then he uses the "escape dribble pull up" to get a shot.

I see instances of both from players in my roster, but more of the "escape dribble pull up".

In the video I posted perviously I have a clip of B.J. Armstrong pulling up on a fast break with the defense in the lane. His tendencies are:

Inside - 35
Close - 25
Mid - 65
3pt - 6

DTL - 5
Pull up - 50

Attack - 25
Pass Out - 100
I love this thread, so here is the respond I sent SLIMM (forgive the man crush)

---------
First off, your amazing

Here is what else you also found out:

I was only 80% on board with your description of attack the basket. To me it only answered the question of what a player does when he attacks, does he go to the rim or does he pass out? I didn't/couldn't see the reason why a player would attack the basket since we determined that DTL was an off ball tendency.

Penetration- The reason why you don't think attack should be more than 50 is because you had pull up at 0. Well it's not just a slider for pull up, it's a slider for penetration as well.

This is the "why" I was looking for.

-------
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:24 PM   #421
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimm44
This is blunt, so brace yourself - you're wrong and talking about something other than what I tested for.
...If you say so...and this is not blunt,am I right????

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
So when you say "Pull up jumper"......

Are you looking for the offensive player to try to beat his man, and if he fails he then look to "pull up" or if he beats the first man but help is between him and the basket he then pulls up.

or

If he is closely defended then he uses the "escape dribble pull up" to get a shot.

I see instances of both from players in my roster, but more of the "escape dribble pull up".

In the video I posted perviously I have a clip of B.J. Armstrong pulling up on a fast break with the defense in the lane. His tendencies are:

Inside - 35
Close - 25
Mid - 65
3pt - 6

DTL - 5
Pull up - 50

Attack - 25
Pass Out - 100
I saw your video.In my opinion,an high Pull Up tendency means that a player will use a lot of escape dribble pull-up,dribble pull,step back pull up etc... instead of trying to beat his defender.
Armstrong pull up "simply",with no extra animations,because you gave to him and high mid range shot tendency(and I'm with you with this choice ).
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:39 PM   #422
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
I was only 80% on board with your description of attack the basket. To me it only answered the question of what a player does when he attacks, does he go to the rim or does he pass out? I didn't/couldn't see the reason why a player would attack the basket since we determined that DTL was an off ball tendency.
Maybe an inside shot tendency higher than the others(shot tendencies)???
Sometimes this game seems a Rubik cube...

About attack/pass out...
Do you(guys) think that attack+pass out=100 is not correct???
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:48 PM   #423
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
So when you say "Pull up jumper"......

Are you looking for the offensive player to try to beat his man, and if he fails he then look to "pull up" or if he beats the first man but help is between him and the basket he then pulls up.

or

If he is closely defended then he uses the "escape dribble pull up" to get a shot.

I see instances of both from players in my roster, but more of the "escape dribble pull up".

In the video I posted perviously I have a clip of B.J. Armstrong pulling up on a fast break with the defense in the lane. His tendencies are:

Inside - 35
Close - 25
Mid - 65
3pt - 6

DTL - 5
Pull up - 50

Attack - 25
Pass Out - 100
I was looking for any animation that came while a player had a live dribble and wasn't in the last 6 seconds of the play clock. The AI changes DRASTICALLY when that happens and I'm convinced there's nothing we can do about it. I saw pull ups that were escape dribbles, some were after the player beat his man/his man was out of position, and some were pull ups right in the chest of the defender. I didn't see a single "flashy shot" animation that players have tendencies for. With Pull Up at 0, players only take spot up jumpers unless it's in the last 6 seconds of the play clock, at least with the mid-range tendencies I used in this sample.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:12 AM   #424
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimm44
I was looking for any animation that came while a player had a live dribble and wasn't in the last 6 seconds of the play clock. The AI changes DRASTICALLY when that happens and I'm convinced there's nothing we can do about it. I saw pull ups that were escape dribbles, some were after the player beat his man/his man was out of position, and some were pull ups right in the chest of the defender. I didn't see a single "flashy shot" animation that players have tendencies for. With Pull Up at 0, players only take spot up jumpers unless it's in the last 6 seconds of the play clock, at least with the mid-range tendencies I used in this sample.
I totally agree about the late shot clock situation, even with a tendency to do nothing players will pull out all stops to get a shot(if not to the rim). We should probably add that to the list of things we are certain of.

I am not seeing any "flashy shot" animations either, except in the post(I left those alone since they are fairly straight forward from my experience) where I see fade-aways, etc. But I have all those tendencies set to zero until we get a handle on how they interact with the various other sliders.
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