Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

[bigtreydawg]

Quote: Originally Posted by G0DZGiFT

Yeah I took it with my phone. I didn't know it would turn out so tiny but it's vannwolfs playbooks. I didn't really know what to do about hot spots so I left them as is. I have mysynergy so I went there and gave 25-50 to the major tendencies. And the difficulty is pro

My next blog will be floor spacing.

[bigtreydawg]

As if this game didn't stress us out enough, here is something else to worry about:

While we are testing extremes, we should restart the game after the first quarter or take into account that the defense is behaving differently.

Since I'm trying to develop a legit coach profile I've been making small tweaks here and there based on observations. And I realize that I've been steadily raising defense pressure of a team to get them to play honestly since the second quarter, only to lower it again when I start a new game.

This is happening because Lebron and wade have such an extreme attack tendency, the defense does not want to play Lebron "honestly" because he just spent the last ten possession trying to cram the ball down the defenders throat if the defense had their way they would camp out in the paint and pull the drone line to help minimize damage (Starcraft humor). This is something we should all be aware of going forward.

SLIMM, I would venture to say that the reason Jrue is taking so many jump shots is because you have his attack high and the defense is giving him too much space. He is taking significantly more jump shots from the second quarter onward. Amirite?

[Serra11]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigtreydawg

As if this game didn't stress us out enough, here is something else to worry about: While we are testing extremes, we should restart the game after the first quarter or take into account that the defense is behaving differently. Since I'm trying to develop a legit coach profile I've been making small tweaks here and there based on observations. And I realize that I've been steadily raising defense pressure of a team to get them to play honestly since the second quarter, only to lower it again when I start a new game. This is happening because Lebron and wade have such an extreme attack tendency, the defense does not want to play Lebron "honestly" because he just spent the last ten possession trying to cram the ball down the defenders throat if the defense had their way they would camp out in the paint and pull the drone line to help minimize damage (Starcraft humor). This is something we should all be aware of going forward. SLIMM, I would venture to say that the reason Jrue is taking so many jump shots is because you have his attack high and the defense is giving him too much space. He is taking significantly more jump shots from the second quarter onward. Amirite?

And what about the drive the lane tendency???
This tendency makes me crazy.
If all the players have it at 0,they are more diligent and calm on offense(and this is good) but...the pull up tendency becomes "stronger" even if it is low.
No matter what are the players shot tendencies,the use of the pull up animations becomes predominant.

if I raise DTL:senseless cut to the basket and passes,forced drive to the paint,broken plays...

Have you found a good balance???

[qpc123]

My "Spin Cycle Blog" per request(spoiler for length).

Spoiler

And the hits just keep on coming......

The Spin Cycle

First off for anyone who may not be sure what I am referencing when I say "The Spin Cycle", here is quick video.



This move has become the bane of my 2k experience, I hate this move with the white hot passion of a thousand suns.

However……..

I feel fairly safe in saying that there is a way to nearly (if not totally) eliminate this move from the game. It is tied directly to the Size Up tendency.

When testing the effect of hesitation, I notice a lack of crazy dribble moves near the end of the shot clock.(videos in my blog) Not that they don’t try to get an open look, they do. However, the ball handler does not go all AND1 style(or very rarely and no the Spin Cycle).

When I shifted to testing Size Up, one thing stuck out almost instantly, the Spin Cycle was back.

At this time my tendencies for Isiah were;

Everything at 0

Except:
NO TTS=100

Size Up =100

Drive Right=100

I tested each Dribble Penetration move one by one, but I’ll go with the most extreme example to best highlight it. Spin=100

Ratings:
BH=99
OFFHAND=25
BALL SEC=25

Coach slider for help D at 30, d pressure at 50, ATB at 1

Within the first minute of play I saw the spin cycle with these settings.

I tried zero Spin, still got the cycle. Tried other “moves” still the cycle.

I set Size Up to 1(0,1,0), you spin me right round baby, right round, like a record baby right round, round, round.

At this point I decided to bring Straight Dribble into the mix.

SD=100
SU=1

I only watched about 4 mintues I took away all of Isiah’s attack tendencies so the shot clock ran down under six seconds , 60% of the time. I did not see the cycle.

SD=99
SU=1

Small sample but still no cycle.

SD=75, SU=25, nope
SD=50, SU=50, nope
SD=49, SU=51….

And were back.

So, having a Size Up Tendency higher than that of Simple Drive causes the spin cycle, for certain. The other settings may not wholly eliminate it, as I said the sample size was not large, but if you know the cycle like I do, if you give it an inch and it will take a mile (it appears fast and frequently).

Having a high Spin dribble penetration tendency only amplfies the problem, because it ain’t called the Spin cycle for nothing. But having at zero does not eliminate it in any way unless Size Up is at 0.

Conclusions:

Set Up Dribble/Dribble Penetration interaction:

All players are hard-coded with all the dribble moves and access is dependent on 1) Ball Handling Rating and 2) Signature Dribble animations assigned. The A.I. also does a decent job of using the proper move in the proper context.

Dribble Penetration tendencies or “moves” act as “GO TO” moves. The higher the setting the more likely a player is to use the dribble animations he has available. This is on top on the hardcoded moves, like a frequency amplfier.

This can cause issues where the A.I. opts for the highest or “GO TO” move in lieu of another move that may have served the ball handler better contextually. Since some moves occur fairly often(crossover) adding a “GO TO” bonus can cause the move to be used too often.

Recommendations(as always subject to change):

Coach Sliders: Set Help defense to 30

Ratings:

Ball Handling: I am still leaving these set as is until I test further with the new help defense.

Off Hand Dribble: This I have no idea, I saw no immediately noticeable difference between 25 and 99 any difference was slight this requires more testing, but 25 did not cause a ton of issues in my Thomas test.

Ball Sec: 25-35, this unlocks a whole new set of animations that had only seen once or not at all.

On Ball D: With the help D set to 30 in coach profile this can go back to the old 99-25 scale IMO.

Set-Up Dribble:

Straight Dribble: MUST be set higher than Size Up to avoid spin cycle hell. I am going with 100 right now as it helps players attack when they get a step without hesitating.

Size Up: I am setting to zero and calling it a day for that tendency. Whatever cool animations might be lost to me aren’t worth having a chance at the cycle coming back. Use this tendency at your own risk.

Hesitation: I’m still unsure if this had an effect or not. Either way it doesn’t seem to hurt anything that I know of. 0-100 dealers choice.

Drive Right: Had this set at 100 for all my recent test with Thomas, he seemed to have little to no issue driving and scoring with his left hand. More testing needed but I would still move this to 75 for all righties and 25 for all lefties(guards, 100 or 0 for bigs).

Dribble Penetration: These are amplifiers of the already hardcoded moves, however, some moves more often, turning those up makes them happen too often and at the wrong times. I am leaving all these at zero for the time being. The only ones I recommend using at all are the very rare ones, Half Spin and Inside Out. Both of those moves are pretty subtle in the game and hard to tell if when one has occurred, still I have seen both with the tendency at zero.

[bigtreydawg]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serra11

And what about the drive the lane tendency??? This tendency makes me crazy. If all the players have it at 0,they are more diligent and calm on offense(and this is good) but...the pull up tendency becomes "stronger" even if it is low. No matter what are the players shot tendencies,the use of the pull up animations becomes predominant. if I raise DTL:senseless cut to the basket and passes,forced drive to the paint,broken plays... Have you found a good balance???

Lol I'm at work pushing boxes around, trying to find a reason why anyone should have a drive the lane tendency above zero. I got nothing, I know I want big guys that are bad shooters to roll on picks. . . But if there mid shot tendency is low and there hot spot is at the baseline they roll even with it at zero. For fun I gave Dwayne a DTL of 20 and kept an eye on his off ball activity. During a lull in the action where Bosh had the ball at the top of the key Dwayne made a hard cut to the rim and because of the momentum system in this game the D didn't have a chance of reacting. Easy lay up.

The fastbreak can be controlled through the fastbreak slider and hustle will determine who runs down the court on the fastbreak. I see no reason to have it above 0. I think SLIMM is doing some more test on that however, maybe I'll change my mind.

Also I think each of us testers have learned so much from each others work that we have a solid sense of what we want to do for whatever project that we're undertaking. Because we're testing just pieces of this game we are getting some weird results here and there. We can attribute reasons for it. "Because I have X at zero Y is happening." But I think we would be better served putting it all together and editing two teams with everything we've learned just to see where we're at.

With SLIMM findings on attack, pull-up, drive

Qpc123's work on dribbling . . . Everything

And Hype's findings on post offense/defense I think we can learn a lot by compiling it all together and seeing what that these pieces add up to.

Is anyone interest in coming together and finding out how off course we really are? lol

[slimm44]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigtreydawg

SLIMM, I would venture to say that the reason Jrue is taking so many jump shots is because you have his attack high and the defense is giving him too much space. He is taking significantly more jump shots from the second quarter onward. Amirite?

Wrong! He took 13 (!!!!) mid-range jumpers in the first half. 13!

Read that one more time, for emphasis.

Kemba Walker was doing the same. He either had 12 or 13 mid-range jumpers in the first half. I have Pull Up back to 0 again, at the moment. During the game I'm watching (Phil @ Mil), at the beginning of the 2nd quarter, Jrue has taken 2 mid-range pull ups, both before the carnival that happens at the end of the shot clock. This is with Attack @ 50, PU @ 0, Pass Out @ 100. His mid tendency is 50 and the AI has given those two mid-range jumpers to him in proper context.

BTW, I am completely watching the CPU on Pro/Default now.

[slimm44]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serra11

And what about the drive the lane tendency??? This tendency makes me crazy. If all the players have it at 0,they are more diligent and calm on offense(and this is good) but...the pull up tendency becomes "stronger" even if it is low. No matter what are the players shot tendencies,the use of the pull up animations becomes predominant. if I raise DTL:senseless cut to the basket and passes,forced drive to the paint,broken plays... Have you found a good balance???

I complete agree with the theory that PU is REALLY overpowered. Even at 1, I was getting ridiculous results. DTL may be way overpowered also. I have been testing DTL by taking the player's cut% from mysynergysports, multiplying it by 4, then rounding it to the nearest multiple of 25. Some players have that at 100, which makes them run to the basket WAY too much. I'm thinking about trying the same theory, only taking 2x the cut% so the max would be 50.

Also, I have only been giving good ball-handling bigs (ie Thaddeus Young/Tobias Harris) an Attack of 0. It looks pretty good so far.

[Serra11]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigtreydawg

Lol I'm at work pushing boxes around, trying to find a reason why anyone should have a drive the lane tendency above zero. I got nothing, I know I want big guys that are bad shooters to roll on picks. . . But if there mid shot tendency is low and there hot spot is at the baseline they roll even with it at zero. For fun I gave Dwayne a DTL of 20 and kept an eye on his off ball activity. During a lull in the action where Bosh had the ball at the top of the key Dwayne made a hard cut to the rim and because of the momentum system in this game the D didn't have a chance of reacting. Easy lay up. The fastbreak can be controlled through the fastbreak slider and hustle will determine who runs down the court on the fastbreak. I see no reason to have it above 0. I think SLIMM is doing some more test on that however, maybe I'll change my mind. Also I think each of us testers have learned so much from each others work that we have a solid sense of what we want to do for whatever project that we're undertaking. Because we're testing just pieces of this game we are getting some weird results here and there. We can attribute reasons for it. "Because I have X at zero Y is happening." But I think we would be better served putting it all together and editing two teams with everything we've learned just to see where we're at. With SLIMM findings on attack, pull-up, drive Your work on dribbling . . . Everything And Hype's findings on post offense/defense I think we can learn a lot by compiling it all together and seeing what that these pieces add up to. Is anyone interest in coming together and finding out how off course we really are? lol

Post off/def and strenght for all the actual players and 90s teams are done by me and Hyper is going to finish the other players that I don't know.

My only issue with DLT at 0 is...the pull up tendency
Later I'll do other tests I'm curious to see your thoughts about floor spacing.