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Old 04-17-2013, 04:03 PM   #473
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by slimm44
I complete agree with the theory that PU is REALLY overpowered. Even at 1, I was getting ridiculous results.

Also, I have only been giving good ball-handling bigs (ie Thaddeus Young/Tobias Harris) an Attack of 0. It looks pretty good so far.
Same problem here.
With Lebron and DWade with DTL 0 and pull up 10,they don't want to drive but they're too satisfied to "use" a pull up animation.
I really hope you can find a good balance!
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:31 PM   #474
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by Serra11
Same problem here.
With Lebron and DWade with DTL 0 and pull up 10,they don't want to drive but they're too satisfied to "use" a pull up animation.
I really hope you can find a good balance!
I already ate my words about this being an on ball tendency lol do we have to revisit this?
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:35 PM   #475
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by Serra11
Same problem here.
With Lebron and DWade with DTL 0 and pull up 10,they don't want to drive but they're too satisfied to "use" a pull up animation.
I really hope you can find a good balance!
I'm struggling with it right now. I'll keep trying, though.

@ bigtrey - I'd LOVE to hear your ideas about spacing. I have Jason Richardson's Hot Spots set to 100 for 3PT Left Corner, Coach Mode on, Manual Play Calling On to ensure every possession is FL. Everytime down the court, if he's not involved in a PNR, I'd expect Richardson to go to the 3PT Left Corner. Here's what I see in non FB possessions:

1st possession:

Run to RT MR elbow

2nd Possession:

Run to RT 3PT corner
Run to RT 3PT elbow

3rd Possession:

Run to RT 3PT corner
Run to LF MR elbow

4th Possession:

Run to RT MR baseline

5th Possession:

Run to RT 3PT elbow

That gives us 5 possessions of Freelance basketball where J-Rich should run to the left 3PT corner and stand still unless he's the PNR ball-handler. He did not run a single PNR and also didn't run to the ONLY place he was supposed to once. Any ideas?
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:38 PM   #476
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
My next blog will be floor spacing.
Goood, ill definitely be looking forward to it. I got players posting up and players cutting directly towards it, messing s**t up lol
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:49 PM   #477
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by slimm44
I'm struggling with it right now. I'll keep trying, though.

@ bigtrey - I'd LOVE to hear your ideas about spacing. I have Jason Richardson's Hot Spots set to 100 for 3PT Left Corner, Coach Mode on, Manual Play Calling On to ensure every possession is FL. Everytime down the court, if he's not involved in a PNR, I'd expect Richardson to go to the 3PT Left Corner. Here's what I see in non FB possessions:

1st possession:

Run to RT MR elbow

2nd Possession:

Run to RT 3PT corner
Run to RT 3PT elbow

3rd Possession:

Run to RT 3PT corner
Run to LF MR elbow

4th Possession:

Run to RT MR baseline

5th Possession:

Run to RT 3PT elbow

That gives us 5 possessions of Freelance basketball where J-Rich should run to the left 3PT corner and stand still unless he's the PNR ball-handler. He did not run a single PNR and also didn't run to the ONLY place he was supposed to once. Any ideas?

. . . ****'s Broken. Lol

While he definetly should be in the one spot he is supposed to stand in more than none it's unrealistic to think he'd camp out with ball movement and other people occupying his spot.
Though, that is strange as all hell. There is an undeniable huge difference when the floor is spaced accordingly. And if you tell a big to stand at the 3pt line for sure he will do it . . . So it's not broken. damnit SLIMM, this part was supposed to be a cake walk now I have something new to stress over.

It never ends with this game.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:03 PM   #478
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
. . . ****'s Broken. Lol

While he definetly should be in the one spot he is supposed to stand in more than none it's unrealistic to think he'd camp out with ball movement and other people occupying his spot.
Though, that is strange as all hell. There is an undeniable huge difference when the floor is spaced accordingly. And if you tell a big to stand at the 3pt line for sure he will do it . . . So it's not broken. damnit SLIMM, this part was supposed to be a cake walk now I have something new to stress over.

It never ends with this game.
Here's how I had the starting lineup set:

Holiday 100 3PT LW
Richardson 100 3PT LC
Turner 100 3PT RW
Young 100 MR LB
Hawes 100 MR RB

EVERY PLAYER HAD THEIR OWN SPOT AND NOT A SINGLE PLAYER STAYED IN THAT POSITION DURING FL SITUATIONS. I AM TYPING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE I CAN'T YELL. IF I COULD, I WOULD. HOWEVER, I'M ON THE INTERNET AND I AM NOT TALKING WITH MY VOICE.

Also, all players were set to 0 post up in FL tendencies. I saw Evan Turner post his man up twice in 5 possessions. Often, there would be 2-3 players cutting AT THE RIM and would create a logjam. Note that they were not setting picks, but for some reason the AI tells players to run UNDER THE RIM when going to a different position on the court. Straight cutting through the lane.

I will now turn my computer off so I don't destroy something.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:32 PM   #479
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Lol I'm at work pushing boxes around, trying to find a reason why anyone should have a drive the lane tendency above zero. I got nothing, I know I want big guys that are bad shooters to roll on picks. . . But if there mid shot tendency is low and there hot spot is at the baseline they roll even with it at zero. For fun I gave Dwayne a DTL of 20 and kept an eye on his off ball activity. During a lull in the action where Bosh had the ball at the top of the key Dwayne made a hard cut to the rim and because of the momentum system in this game the D didn't have a chance of reacting. Easy lay up.

The fastbreak can be controlled through the fastbreak slider and hustle will determine who runs down the court on the fastbreak. I see no reason to have it above 0. I think SLIMM is doing some more test on that however, maybe I'll change my mind.

Also I think each of us testers have learned so much from each others work that we have a solid sense of what we want to do for whatever project that we're undertaking. Because we're testing just pieces of this game we are getting some weird results here and there. We can attribute reasons for it. "Because I have X at zero Y is happening." But I think we would be better served putting it all together and editing two teams with everything we've learned just to see where we're at.

With SLIMM findings on attack, pull-up, drive

Your work on dribbling . . . Everything

And Hype's findings on post offense/defense I think we can learn a lot by compiling it all together and seeing what that these pieces add up to.

Is anyone interest in coming together and finding out how off course we really are? lol
That has pretty much been my method for the 90-91 roster I am making. Each day I go in and input any changes I need to make, watch some CPUvCPU action. and save that file. On a seperate file same roster, I do my editing and testing, then go back and apply those changes to the main file, and so on and so forth.

I got the Rockets up to date last night after I do another team I will test.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:46 PM   #480
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimm44
Here's how I had the starting lineup set:

Holiday 100 3PT LW
Richardson 100 3PT LC
Turner 100 3PT RW
Young 100 MR LB
Hawes 100 MR RB

EVERY PLAYER HAD THEIR OWN SPOT AND NOT A SINGLE PLAYER STAYED IN THAT POSITION DURING FL SITUATIONS. I AM TYPING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE I CAN'T YELL. IF I COULD, I WOULD. HOWEVER, I'M ON THE INTERNET AND I AM NOT TALKING WITH MY VOICE.

Also, all players were set to 0 post up in FL tendencies. I saw Evan Turner post his man up twice in 5 possessions. Often, there would be 2-3 players cutting AT THE RIM and would create a logjam. Note that they were not setting picks, but for some reason the AI tells players to run UNDER THE RIM when going to a different position on the court. Straight cutting through the lane.

I will now turn my computer off so I don't destroy something.
This is exactly why I'm all OCD about 2k fixing playcalling for 2k14. Freelancing will most likely stay broken...maybe it's simply too much to ask for improved AI.
Looking at other genres, it's not like 2k is years behind everybody else. Strategy games are still relying on the same old money scripts to keep the CPU competitive, and I won't even get started about other sport games...playing NHL/FIFA/PES against the AI for more than 5 minutes is pretty much impossible for me at this point.

But if we at least had a playcalling system that works, we could fake our way around it. I've posted this idea before...if we had multiple layers of play distribution, most problems with tendencies wouldn't matter at all.

Something like this:
a) Global touches frequency -> Only by using a single touches value
b) Individual play selection -> Use a percentage system to fine tune play styles. So we could assign individual values to different play types. If a player runs a PnR in 70% of his touches in real life, we could recreate this exact number.

That way, even if freelancing tendencies remain flawed, 2k could improve gameplay hugely by designing plays that look like real basketball and giving us the right tools to make teams run them at the right ratio.
...but looking at the crappy default playbooks in 2k13 as well as roster updates, what could you possibly expect?

I've done the same kind of hotspot testing you did, but with the pick/iso/screen stuff...had pretty much the same kind of results. Seems kinda pointless to tweak all these numbers at this point...

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