Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

[Serra11]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigtreydawg

About Serra11 I think there may be something to tendencies/attributes and playcalling that we are unfairly dismissing. Did you read Hype's post about more plays being called for higher offensive post bigs. Logic says that can't be right. But something may be going on with which plays "auto play calling" is choosing. I'll look into that because I have to know how to get point guards more Iso specific plays.

I use Hyper's roster but I don't know the ratings,tendencies and touches for the teams he mentioned.
Maybe he has role players with high touches tendency.
But with my edits now he sees more instant low post sets for Shaq because his posts and strenght ratings.

[Serra11]

Quote: Originally Posted by qpc123

@bigtrey, I am now understanding your explanation of Attack the Basket and Pass Out. I'll break it down to make sure I got you right and in case anyone else wasn't getting it either. Attack the Basket and Pass Out are two completely different tendencies. I thinking of it this way(helps to put yourself in the mind of the player). So, as the player I have the ball, now what? Well I have three choices, I can shoot, I can try to score myself(drive), or I can pass the ball to a teammate. Now you have to decide what kind of player you are. A scorer, a pass first point guard, spot up shooter, etc. Let's say I am a scorer for the first example. I am going to want to attack, so I need to have a fairly high tendency to do so. The Attack the Basket tendency slider effects the frequency in which you make the choice to drive, perhaps a better description of this slider would be "Offensive Aggression". I do not think this slider much effect on what the player does after this decision. I tend to think of it as an "if/then scenario." Do I have the ball? - Yes Do I want to attempt to score? - Yes Do I want to shoot right now? - NO Do I want to drive - Yes? Pass Out works in a similar manner and may have more of an effect on what the player does if he decides to attack. Let's pick up where I was with the "if/then" where the ball has decided to drive. Am I going to get a shot off this drive? - This is where I think Pass Out starts to kick in If yes, then shoot(lay-up, dunk, pull up J) If no, then pass out The lower the Pass Out slider the more likely the player is the think, "hey I got a lane I'm gonna score" even if the defense is a position to get a possible stop. From there ratings take over to decide the players success based off the shot type he chose. The higher the Pass Out the more likely a player is to give up a contested shot for a better look from a teammate. So, how are we to set these? For guards and forwards(and some rare faceup bigs) slimm's ATB=Inside shot tend. PO=Pass rating works pretty well. For Bigs, this is where I am having issues. I'll use Manute Bol as my example: ATB=0 PO=75 I have seen this happen a lot with the 0,75 setting. But you have said 50 makes them too indecisive. There must a sweet spot in the middle.

In this case,the issue is not Manute's pass out tendency.
What are:
-Bol's offensive awarness???
-On ball defense of the man who was guarding the player that cut(Beuchler???)???And defensive awarness???
-Chicago Bulls pressure???

And there's a chance that all my questions...are completely useless!!!

[slimm44]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serra11

For sure,Battier pops came from freelance situations.I did not give to the Heat pick and pop plays. What are your Ibaka shot tendencies???

Inside 43
Close 27
Mid 42
3PT 9

@ Hyperballer - What is the data you have for Shaq:

Play Types
Touches
Freelance Tendencies
All Post Move/Shot Tendencies

Look for Post Gameplay Slider
Take Post Shot Gameplay Slider
Look for Post Coaching Gameplay Slider

[Hyperballer21]

Quote: Originally Posted by slimm44

@ Hyperballer - What is the data you have for Shaq: Play Types Touches Freelance Tendencies All Post Move/Shot Tendencies Look for Post Gameplay Slider Take Post Shot Gameplay Slider Look for Post Coaching Gameplay Slider

Play Types - Post Low, PnR Roll Man

Touches - 99

Freelance Tendencies - Every 0 Except
-Set Pick = 1
-Post Up = 99
-Give and Go = 18

Post Moves - Everything 0 except
-Spin = 25
-Drive = 99
-Agg. Backdown = 25
-Drop Step = 25
-Backdown = 99

Post Moves - Everything 0 except:
-Post Shot = 83
-Post Hook = 31

Game Play Sliders Shot Tendencies
-Inside and Close Shot = 0
-Midrange, 3pt, Post Shot, Look for Post, Throw Alley Oops = 75
-Attack Basket, Attempt Dunks, Attempt Putbacks = 100

Coach Profiles Shot Tendencies
-Inside, Close Shot, Attack Basket = 1
-Midrange = 50
-3pt shot = 28
-Look for post players = 78
-Throw Alley Oops = 25

[bigtreydawg]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serra11

In this case,the issue is not Manute's pass out tendency. What are: -Bol's offensive awarness??? -On ball defense of the man who was guarding the player that cut(Beuchler???)???And defensive awarness??? -Chicago Bulls pressure??? And there's a chance that all my questions...are completely useless!!!

Sorry Serra, not all your questions are useless but that is the pass out tendency.

Cuts to the basket happen whether or not a player has a drive the lane tendency or not but looking at that . . . Did anybody do the training camp drills?

You know how you can make a player cut in a certain direction well the CPU utilizes this better than me. You mostly see it happen when the CPU is trying to inbound if we are playing deny defense you will see the guy that wants an inbound pass do a juke move and get open. That is essentially what Bol did there. He made a guy cut to the basket. Wow. This F-ing game.

I don't know enough about Bol, idealistically what would you want him to do in that scenario?

Edit: the Haslem problem I had was him holding the ball and doing nothing with it that was with 0/0 (lol)

The Chalmers problem of him not passing the ball to Lebron even though the dotted blue line told him to was because his attack and pass out were at 50. Essentially Chalmers wanted to drive so badly that he refused to pass the ball. When the dotted blue line went away (broken play) Chalmers tried to drive and ended up passing it to Lebron anyway. I almost screamed.

The Lebron problem where he passed the ball to someone trying to set a screen for him was because his pass tendency was really high either 80 or 100 I forgot, the exact number may be a few pages back in the thread.

Yeah, so apparently 0 attack and 75 pass out give you the super power of telepathy, where you can make a guy cut to the basket. Sorry about that.

There are so many little aspects that come into play. If you've ever had a point guard with pass out at 100 and a low attack tendency (0-10) when a play is called that requires him to make. Pass coming off a pick. He will instantly get the ball out of his hands the nano second the pick connects. It's nitpicky but lowering his pass out or raising his attack helps him come off the screen a little more.

[slimm44]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hyperballer21

Play Types - Post Low, PnR Roll Man Touches - 99 Freelance Tendencies - Every 0 Except -Set Pick = 1 -Post Up = 99 -Give and Go = 18 Post Moves - Everything 0 except -Spin = 25 -Drive = 99 -Agg. Backdown = 25 -Drop Step = 25 -Backdown = 99 Post Moves - Everything 0 except: -Post Shot = 83 -Post Hook = 31 Game Play Sliders Shot Tendencies -Inside and Close Shot = 0 -Midrange, 3pt, Post Shot, Look for Post, Throw Alley Oops = 75 -Attack Basket, Attempt Dunks, Attempt Putbacks = 100 Coach Profiles Shot Tendencies -Inside, Close Shot, Attack Basket = 1 -Midrange = 50 -3pt shot = 28 -Look for post players = 78 -Throw Alley Oops = 25

Please keep everything how it is but set his Strength and Low Post to 25 and see if the AI calls plays/FL post-up's for him at a similar rate to how they are now. I'm guessing that, in a 12 minute quarter game, the AI is still going to run the offense through Shaq.

[qpc123]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigtreydawg

Sorry Serra, not all your questions are useless but that is the pass out tendency. Cuts to the basket happen whether or not a player has a drive the lane tendency or not but looking at that . . . Did anybody do the training camp drills? You know how you can make a player cut in a certain direction well the CPU utilizes this better than me. You mostly see it happen when the CPU is trying to inbound if we are playing deny defense you will see the guy that wants an inbound pass do a juke move and get open. That is essentially what Bol did there. He made a guy cut to the basket. Wow. This F-ing game. I don't know enough about Bol, idealistically what would you want him to do in that scenario? Edit: the Haslem problem I had was him holding the ball and doing nothing with it that was with 0/0 (lol) The Chalmers problem of him not passing the ball to Lebron even though the dotted blue line told him to was because his attack and pass out were at 50. Essentially Chalmers wanted to drive so badly that he refused to pass the ball. When the dotted blue line went away (broken play) Chalmers tried to drive and ended up passing it to Lebron anyway. I almost screamed. The Lebron problem where he passed the ball to someone trying to set a screen for him was because his pass tendency was really high either 80 or 100 I forgot, the exact number may be a few pages back in the thread. Yeah, so apparently 0 attack and 75 pass out give you the super power of telepathy, where you can make a guy cut to the basket. Sorry about that.

To be honest I don't know either, but that cut/pass between bigs is annoying.

I'll keep testing to see what kinda results I get with various combos.

Now that we are getting to the point where we are getting predictable results I'm going to gradually start adding some of the flashier things to try and bring out some star players "go to" moves.

Example - Magic Johnson's Spin or Hakeem's Dream Shake.

Should we start posting player ratings/tends for players we feel are performing properly?

That way we have good sample base of "Player Types." For example, if I posted my '91 Jordan, then someone could use that info for making an early-mid 2000's Kobe.

[bigtreydawg]

Quote: Originally Posted by qpc123

To be honest I don't know either, but that cut/pass between bigs is annoying. I'll keep testing to see what kinda results I get with various combos. Now that we are getting to the point where we are getting predictable results I'm going to gradually start adding some of the flashier things to try and bring out some star players "go to" moves. Example - Magic Johnson's Spin or Hakeem's Dream Shake. Should we start posting player ratings/tends for players we feel are performing properly? That way we have good sample base of "Player Types." For example, if I posted my '91 Jordan, then someone could use that info for making an early-mid 2000's Kobe.

Ooohh that's a good idea. For Bol if you just want him and other bigs that dont score to not be so good at passing then lower it into the 30.

I liked the idea of having it at 75 because I really hated Haslem yesterday but if its gonna give him super powers than 30 should work to get it out of his hands especially since he has 0 attack.