Home
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-26-2013, 03:07 PM   #721
MVP
 
JasonWilliams55's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Downtown Sacramento
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Where were you when I spent 30+ pages arguing that drive the lane is an on ball tendency?

Sorry man but we conducted a rediculous amount of test, like way too many, probably what ca legally be considered a metric ****ton. And we can safely say that drive the lane is an off ball tendency.

And attack and pass out are not based on 100.

They are very much stand alone tendencies. Give a guy 0/0 in attack and pass out and he will stand there like a dummy with the ball in his hand. Give a guy 100/100 and he will run around like a chicken with a severed head passing it to anyone who remotely looks open.

Props go to Serra11 for finding out that the Triple threat tendency acts as a pressure valve for players with a high attack tendency. And it also gives players with a low attack something to do while they're busy not attacking
All of this was talked about/tested/done back in 2011. Just saying. Search for coach theory, coach profile observations, coach definitions, etc... that will bring up many old threads about this subject, alot of this is re-hash out of that. Serra was around back then and was a part of the dribble edits, coach observations threads as well.

I have not been on OS as much as I use to, as I have found that there isn't a need for too many edits from 2k's base as the gameplay can be adjusted pretty easily without heavy edits.

As for DTL/Spot up, that is 100% an on-ball tendency. How can one DTL without the ball? That would be a cut not a drive. I believe that 2k recognizes the receiver of the pass as "having the ball" while its still on its way over (in the air still).

Also back in 2011, I had several PMs with Mike Wang about coaching profiles/tendencies and he told me what attack the basket really meant as I had originally thought that it was about driving (attacking) to get to the paint. But he stated that it was only for after the drive and it determined how the player would finish said drive, either attack (go for score) or pass out. Too bad those PMs are all locked away in my prev. acc. .

Also if you would re-read my post, I said that attack/pass out SHOULD be base-100 not that it is, as it makes it easier to determine whats going on imo. But it can be left base 200, it might produce more aggressive outcomes as the numbers would be higher, but even then 90/90 = 50/50 in chances outcomes. Da_Czar and I had PMs about Layup Gather/Releases over the same outcome ideas.

For example:
Attack 100, Pass out 100 is the same as Attack 50, Pass Out 50, equal chances that either would happen. I say keep it base 100 (meaning together they equal 100) to keep it simple.

Again Drive/Spot -> Pull Up/Penetrate -> Attack/Pass.
__________________
"Most people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them"


Last edited by JasonWilliams55; 04-26-2013 at 03:14 PM.
JasonWilliams55 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 04-26-2013, 04:06 PM   #722
MVP
 
OVR: 12
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zola Predosa,Italy
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
I am at the same place I know how to achieve 90% of what I want and the other 10% can be achieved with small adjustments.

Now I want to get some editing done.

That being said; I do have a another quick video......



@bigtrey - is this what you are looking for?
Apart Pippen's movements(),look at the position of Phila shooting guard(Doc Rivers) that is really close to Scottie!
High help defense???High pressure???All related to Wilkins on ball defense or def awarness???
__________________
Boots..........To ASSES!!!!!!
Serra11 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 04:16 PM   #723
MVP
 
OVR: 12
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zola Predosa,Italy
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
Also back in 2011, I had several PMs with Mike Wang about coaching profiles/tendencies and he told me what attack the basket really meant as I had originally thought that it was about driving (attacking) to get to the paint. But he stated that it was only for after the drive and it determined how the player would finish said drive, either attack (go for score) or pass out. Too bad those PMs are all locked away in my prev. acc. .

Also if you would re-read my post, I said that attack/pass out SHOULD be base-100 not that it is, as it makes it easier to determine whats going on imo. But it can be left base 200, it might produce more aggressive outcomes as the numbers would be higher, but even then 90/90 = 50/50 in chances outcomes. Da_Czar and I had PMs about Layup Gather/Releases over the same outcome ideas.

For example:
Attack 100, Pass out 100 is the same as Attack 50, Pass Out 50, equal chances that either would happen. I say keep it base 100 (meaning together they equal 100) to keep it simple.

Again Drive/Spot -> Pull Up/Penetrate -> Attack/Pass.
Mike Wang...one of the devs that last year "forgot" to include the double teams in basketball game...
I would trust more YouAlreadyKnow just to make an example...

I have not tested this closely,but seems to me that an high attack makes the player more aggressive around the rim during a drive(more "will" to use a layup animation).
__________________
Boots..........To ASSES!!!!!!
Serra11 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 04:20 PM   #724
Pro
 
bigtreydawg's Arena
 
OVR: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Vic
Blog Entries: 1
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimm44
@ bigtrey, I sent you a PM with these findings regarding the Pull Up Tendency, but I feel they're pretty conclusive (aside from a few variables). At least conclusive enough to post.

I think I have the Pull Up Tendency figured out. First, the data:

I watched CPU matches of Phil/Phil. Starting lineups were Holiday, Richardson, Turner, Young, Hawes.

The tendencies were as follows for every test:

Holiday 41 ins, 35 close, 50 mid, 32 3PT
Richardson 28 ins, 22 close, 28 mid, 71 3pt
Turner 34 ins, 40 close, 47 mid, 16 3pt
Young 70 ins, 40 close, 33 mid, 1 3pt
Hawes 45 ins, 42 close, 45 mid, 14 3pt

Sliders were all 50 (unless specified) on pro mode.

First test: ATB 0, PU 0, PO 0
Out of 20 possessions, there was 1 pull up jumper in mid-range before the last 5 seconds of the shot clock

Second test: ATB 0, PU 100, PO 0
Out of 20 possessions, there were 2 pull up jumpers in mid-range before the last 5 seconds of the shot clock.

Third test: ATB 100, PU 100, PO 100

Out of 20 possessions, there were 5 pull up jumpers in mid-range before the last 5 seconds of the shot clock.

Fourth test: ATB 100, PU 100, PO 0, OBD slider 0

Out of 20 possessions, there were 10 pull up jumpers in mid-range and one from 3PT land before the last 5 seconds of the shot clock.

Fifth test: ATB 100, PU 100, PO 0 OBD slider 50

Out of 20 possessions, there were 13 pull up jumpers in mid-range before the last 5 seconds of the shot clock.

1. Pull Up only works when the player has an attack the basket tendency above 0. I don't know if there are any "levels" but I know that, at 0, there were no pull up jumpers until the end of the shot clock. With ATB at 100 and PU at 100, there are pull ups galore. This combination allows the AI to VASTLY override the mid-range tendency given to a player.

2. Pull Up also works better when the Pass Out Tendency is low. I only tested 0's and 100's, but with PO at 100 there were a select few PU's but with PO at 0, there were SEVERAL.

3. Having a high ATB tendency, a high PU tendency, and a low PO tendency is the best combination to get players to pull up off the drive.

4. I saw no PU's by PF or C. Only the PG, SG, and SF attempted a PU. For that matter, I saw no drives AT ALL by the PF or C, and that's with the ATB tendency at 100 for all players.

5. The on-ball defense slider does not effect how often a player pulls up. With the slider at 0 and the slider at 50 I got the same results.

6. All but one PU jumper I saw was in mid-range. The other was a 3. This animation is triggered primarily in Mid-Range.

7. The two players who took the most PU's were Turner and Richardson, both of whom have very low mid-range tendencies.

8. This testing was done with no ISO plays and the ISO FL tendency at 0. I don't know if the results would apply to those situations.

9. There were very few PU jumpers in FB action, regardless of tendencies or sliders. Most of all (if not all) came in FL or during set plays.

10. Some drives were initiated with no pick and some were with a pick. PU jumpers, with high ATB/PU and low PO Tendencies occurred during each situation.

Conclusion: On PRO mode, having a high Attack Tendency (to initiate the drive sequence), a low PO Tendency (a lot of PO's happen at the begging of the drive, this may change if OBD slider is lower or once we find threshold for ball handling/OBD rating), and a high PU Tendency (which is primarily triggered in the Mid-Range, between the FT line and 3pt line).

This animation was not triggered one time in 100 possessions by the PF or C. It solely occurred when the PG/SG/SF had the ball.

There were 34 total PU jumpers in 100 possessions and only 1 of them were 3's.

I don't know if the "fancy shot" animations effect this or not. This was STRICTLY testing for PU animations, not fadeaways/floaters/stepbacks, etc.


My next test is going to be Triple Threat/Triple Threat Shot. I probably won't be able to post any findings until tomorrow, at best.

Slimm44 posted this back on page 39.

I responded saying that this also explains the "why" aspect of someone driving now that we've determined Drive the Lane is an off ball tendency.

Believe me, I really want it to be an on ball tendency.

If you can give me any kind of proof that it is I will gladly rub it in Slimm's face.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-26-2013 at 05:21 PM.
bigtreydawg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 04:32 PM   #725
MVP
 
G0DZGiFT's Arena
 
OVR: 3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Trey, you gonna post a roster with your edits right?
G0DZGiFT is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 04-26-2013, 04:35 PM   #726
MVP
 
OVR: 25
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeland, FL
Blog Entries: 9
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serra11
Apart Pippen's movements(),look at the position of Phila shooting guard(Doc Rivers) that is really close to Scottie!
High help defense???High pressure???All related to Wilkins on ball defense or def awarness???
I'm still messing with the coach sliders to find the right combo of Help D and D Pressure so that CPU teams won't lay too far off the shooters and way too far off the non shooters.

I don't remember the exact settings and they have changed since then.

I noticed Doc Rivers just standing and watching at the time. My D awareness ratings are based off slimm's scale but I may have to adjust them. The higher scoring and pace between now and then results in a lot of players in the 50's and that may be too low to get them to react to a situation like the one with Pippen. He wasn't in bad position, he just didn't react to Pippen's attack, at all.
__________________
"You come at the King, you best not miss..."
qpc123 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 04:40 PM   #727
Pro
 
bigtreydawg's Arena
 
OVR: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Vic
Blog Entries: 1
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0DZGiFT
Trey, you gonna post a roster with your edits right?
Nope, in literary terms it would be called plagiarism from multiple sources.
bigtreydawg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 04:49 PM   #728
Pro
 
bigtreydawg's Arena
 
OVR: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Vic
Blog Entries: 1
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
All of this was talked about/tested/done back in 2011. Just saying. Search for coach theory, coach profile observations, coach definitions, etc... that will bring up many old threads about this subject, alot of this is re-hash out of that. Serra was around back then and was a part of the dribble edits, coach observations threads as well.

I have not been on OS as much as I use to, as I have found that there isn't a need for too many edits from 2k's base as the gameplay can be adjusted pretty easily without heavy edits.

As for DTL/Spot up, that is 100% an on-ball tendency. How can one DTL without the ball? That would be a cut not a drive. I believe that 2k recognizes the receiver of the pass as "having the ball" while its still on its way over (in the air still).

Also back in 2011, I had several PMs with Mike Wang about coaching profiles/tendencies and he told me what attack the basket really meant as I had originally thought that it was about driving (attacking) to get to the paint. But he stated that it was only for after the drive and it determined how the player would finish said drive, either attack (go for score) or pass out. Too bad those PMs are all locked away in my prev. acc. .

Also if you would re-read my post, I said that attack/pass out SHOULD be base-100 not that it is, as it makes it easier to determine whats going on imo. But it can be left base 200, it might produce more aggressive outcomes as the numbers would be higher, but even then 90/90 = 50/50 in chances outcomes. Da_Czar and I had PMs about Layup Gather/Releases over the same outcome ideas.

For example:
Attack 100, Pass out 100 is the same as Attack 50, Pass Out 50, equal chances that either would happen. I say keep it base 100 (meaning together they equal 100) to keep it simple.

Again Drive/Spot -> Pull Up/Penetrate -> Attack/Pass.
I hate to get off on the wrong because its good seeing you in this thread but I have to disagree with you again.

Having attack/pass based out of 100 is not necessary and even detrimental to a player like Rondo who attacks A LOT but passes out the majority of the time.

If you set him to 10 attack and 90 pass out you stifle his ability to drive.

Edit: to extrapolate, if you want to create a Kobe Bryant type of players who passes out of his jump shot you would give them a pull up of 45-50, set their attack to 50 and pass out to 90. Now you have a player that attacks then pulls up and then pass when help D collapses on him.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-26-2013 at 05:00 PM.
bigtreydawg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Basketball > NBA 2K Basketball > NBA 2K Last Gen > NBA 2K Last Gen Sliders »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:45 AM.

Top -