Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

[Rockie_Fresh88]

What is Sim? A simulation- the act of imitating behavior or some situation; to imitate to reproduce someone's behavior; representation of something like a model; appear to have properties of; duplicate behavior.

What is Cheese? abuse of exploits, mechanics {due to limitations of gaming?}

Really we should consider that not everyone wants a 100% sim game. Some guys just want to see Lebron James dunk all game. Some guys just want to see Kevin Durant shoot threes all game. These plays are always one espn highlights, which make ppl want to replicate the highlights. We should expect this especially online. If 2k made a straight sim game they would appeal to a smaller crowd. Sure everyone likes signatures, but most would say the game boring if it was tuned to the straight sim crowd. We sim crowd understand these plays are special because they are spontaneous events that happen, this makes the game exciting. When watching the game don't we hope to see our favorite players dunk and shoot crazy jumpers? I feel the sim nation with custom rosters, sliders, make the game more exciting because these events happen spontaneously instead of every offensive play.

I feel like 2k appeals to both crowds really. just want to know how u guys feel about sim vs cheese. I don't blame ppl who play "cheese" (hate that term) . Thats fun for them. And some of us aren't as sim as we think. Running plays all game doesn't make you sim. When I play "sim" I want to replicate the excitement, tension, spontaneous, of the NBA. What about you guys?

[I Djm]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

What is Sim? A simulation- the act of imitating behavior or some situation; to imitate to reproduce someone's behavior; representation of something like a model; appear to have properties of; duplicate behavior.

What is Cheese? abuse of exploits, mechanics {due to limitations of gaming?}

Really we should consider that not everyone wants a 100% sim game. Some guys just want to see Lebron James dunk all game. Some guys just want to see Kevin Durant shoot threes all game. These plays are always one espn highlights, which make ppl want to replicate the highlights. We should expect this especially online. If 2k made a straight sim game they would appeal to a smaller crowd. Sure everyone likes signatures, but most would say the game boring if it was tuned to the straight sim crowd. We sim crowd understand these plays are special because they are spontaneous events that happen, this makes the game exciting. When watching the game don't we hope to see our favorite players dunk and shoot crazy jumpers? I feel the sim nation with custom rosters, sliders, make the game more exciting because these events happen spontaneously instead of every offensive play.

I feel like 2k appeals to both crowds really. just want to know how u guys feel about sim vs cheese. I don't blame ppl who play "cheese" (hate that term) . Thats fun for them. And some of us aren't as sim as we think. Running plays all game doesn't make you sim. When I play "sim" I want to replicate the excitement, tension, spontaneous, of the NBA. What about you guys?

i think you hit on the head yea we like to see those plays but they don't happen quite often. as far as the cheesing goes i don't want to call it that. if it works why not go to it again, if dwight howard constatly posts up a pg and man handles him its not cheese its smart play.

im not looking for that unrealstic stuff anymore i used to when i was younger

[scoonie05]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Man, im tired of seeing the spin dunk because u can't stop it. SMH

[XxRocky145xX]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

i think the 2k devs have to create animations to counter spindunk and moves who involve jumps like the hopstep. since i started playing 2k back in 2k6 i noticed that players playing defense dont have animations to counter it...they just rise their invisible hands and nothing happens









++++++++i

[daveberg]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

When I watch NBA games, I don't expect to see Lebron James running around in circles at top speed, then dunking over 4 people. I don't expect to see Derrick Rose get to the rim then pump fake 12 times before dropping in a layup. I don't expect to see a team use a full court press for 48 minutes nor triple team on every defensive play.

NBA 2k12 is supposed to be a simulation game, so in my personal opinion, I don't expect to see these things in the game either, which is why I am a strictly offline player, that way I can customize my game to play similar to that which I see play out in real life.

[iLLosophy]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

This is like debating religion. Just find guys who you enjoy playing with.

[AdamBa17]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Very interesting debate, I have a lot to say but too tired too atm lol.

But I will say, running plays all the time isnt sim. And taking all open shots/chances isn't cheese. It's a mix of the two. It all comes down to DEFENCE.

If players in the real NBA were left open every possession from downtown, BELIEVE ME, they WOULD take 50 three pointers a game. They WOULD. The only reason they dont is because the D doesnt allow them easy shots.

And if they could DUNK every possession in real life, you think they wouldnt do it because it isnt SIM? Reality doesnt give a damn about sim. It cares about scoring ANYHOW.

Id love to see in real life a player dunking the ball 2 possessions in a row and then the third time theres a wide open lane and then he just says "ah, thats cheese, I cant take that lane" and then backing out and passing off to set up a play.

The sad reality about the above joke is that some people are really playing like that.

It's a long topic that im only touching the tip of the iceberg of, but still.

Ps. I am not a cheeser and I despise them. I am SIM, but I'm the REAL SIM, not the imaginary sim that some people are (which is THEIR VERSION of what they THINK sim is)

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Exciting up paced careless play is one thing. Abuse of exploits is another, 1 is unrealistic, the other is cheeseballing.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Very interesting debate, I have a lot to say but too tired too atm lol.

But I will say, running plays all the time isnt sim. And taking all open shots/chances isn't cheese. It's a mix of the two. It all comes down to DEFENCE.

If players in the real NBA were left open every possession from downtown, BELIEVE ME, they WOULD take 50 three pointers a game. They WOULD. The only reason they dont is because the D doesnt allow them easy shots.

And if they could DUNK every possession in real life, you think they wouldnt do it because it isnt SIM? Reality doesnt give a damn about sim. It cares about scoring ANYHOW.

Id love to see in real life a player dunking the ball 2 possessions in a row and then the third time theres a wide open lane and then he just says "ah, thats cheese, I cant take that lane" and then backing out and passing off to set up a play.

The sad reality about the above joke is that some people are really playing like that.

It's a long topic that im only touching the tip of the iceberg of, but still.

Ps. I am not a cheeser and I despise them. I am SIM, but I'm the REAL SIM, not the imaginary sim that some people are (which is THEIR VERSION of what they THINK sim is)

Will the real SIM Shady please stand up.

J/K cheesy joke I couldn't pass up, I agree with you though.

[AdamBa17]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Lol sorry I came off like a right arrogant *** like "I KNOW ABOUT SIM AND YOU DONT HAHA"

I dont mean that, but I do think a lot of people think they know what sim is but theyre still operating under some made up rules.

[NYdreams]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

well let me be the first to say.. im not real sim player and i dont want to be one lol... the only plays i run is defensive plays.. why should i run offense plays all the time ? i mean i never really tried it but it seems slower running it to me... seriously... i just give the ball to whoever open and hope for the best.. i dont see how thats cheese ... if i gotta man open for a wide open 3 imma shoot it i dont care how many times im open .. ty lawson shot 10 threes against the twolves is that not real ?? thats not cheese to me if your open... real cheese is getting someone like carmelo and posting up every single play throughout the whole game and score ... knowing you cant really shoot with him but score on post ups that almost impossible to guard...

[rockchisler]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

well let me be the first to say.. im not real sim player and i dont want to be one lol... the only plays i run is defensive plays.. why should i run offense plays all the time ? i mean i never really tried it but it seems slower running it to me... seriously... i just give the ball to whoever open and hope for the best.. i dont see how thats cheese ... if i gotta man open for a wide open 3 imma shoot it i dont care how many times im open .. ty lawson shot 10 threes against the twolves is that not real ?? thats not cheese to me if your open... real cheese is getting someone like carmelo and posting up every single play throughout the whole game and score ... knowing you cant really shoot with him but score on post ups that almost impossible to guard...

U can freestyle and not run offensive plays all game and still not be cheesing, to me cheese is running your player into someone over and over till u make your way to the hoop, no consequence in loss of dribble or foul or playing one man full court press and player doesn't get tired and does not foul, those are easy fixes in 2k from developers stand point but they have not addressed it yet.

[iceberg760]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Played a handful of league games over the weekend that had me questioning my Faith in humanity....

1) the basketball court is 94ft -- i played as the Jazz/my oponent has the Heat..1st qtr dude takes 3 charges before i reach the 3pt line (mind you, i was jogging up court with the rock/no turbo)..i ask the kid "is this how you really play??"....he says it's not cheese/my response is "cool, you can take a charge but shouldnt it be in the painted area and not @ halfcourt"...i'm thinking dude has the better team on paper/why not beat me with stick skills and not some exploit of the game..i call that Cheese..

2) reach, reach, reach....played a guy that had me in the bonus midway through each qtr...no complaints here but i'm like dude--do you really have to impede me running a play by constantly trying to steal the ball....his response "you gotta guard the ball" ~~ lol...i'm thinking the last time i noticed a guard back down to the 3pt line is Magic Johnson in the early 90's...lol...

truely, i will take a loss, a butt whopping with the rest of em -- but Best me with Sticks~not some BS mumbo jumbo---i have no problem with the paint pounders/they have no clue how to guard the midrange...i luv the 3pt Clinic kats/lemme see you stick it over & over with a hand in your face....play as your team plays--fast paced, slowed down~~but Cheese is Cheese..you know it & I know it...

[Knighttime24]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Played a handful of league games over the weekend that had me questioning my Faith in humanity....

1) the basketball court is 94ft -- i played as the Jazz/my oponent has the Heat..1st qtr dude takes 3 charges before i reach the 3pt line (mind you, i was jogging up court with the rock/no turbo)..i ask the kid "is this how you really play??"....he says it's not cheese/my response is "cool, you can take a charge but shouldnt it be in the painted area and not @ halfcourt"...i'm thinking dude has the better team on paper/why not beat me with stick skills and not some exploit of the game..i call that Cheese..

2) reach, reach, reach....played a guy that had me in the bonus midway through each qtr...no complaints here but i'm like dude--do you really have to impede me running a play by constantly trying to steal the ball....his response "you gotta guard the ball" ~~ lol...i'm thinking the last time i noticed a guard back down to the 3pt line is Magic Johnson in the early 90's...lol...

truely, i will take a loss, a butt whopping with the rest of em -- but Best me with Sticks~not some BS mumbo jumbo---i have no problem with the paint pounders/they have no clue how to guard the midrange...i luv the 3pt Clinic kats/lemme see you stick it over & over with a hand in your face....play as your team plays--fast paced, slowed down~~but Cheese is Cheese..you know it & I know it...

1) That really does suck. I hope that I never encounter that issue.

2) Why do you consider the excessive reaching to be cheese?? Your opponent kept sending you to the free throw line. Doesn't sound like much of an exploit to me.

Y'all go overboard with looking for "cheese" sometimes. There are certain things like 2k11's spin dunk that should definitely be considered exploits because they are nearly unstoppable. However, a player is not necessarily an exploiter because they do not play "sim basketball".

[P Shirls]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Well I'm no Sim Nazi.....but ONBall Defense is a prerequisite to being considered as such....put it this way...tell random people who play the game that offball d is soft and you will either get some who agree or people defending it.....try telling random people that onball defense is soft you will get the or the face