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blues rocker · 03-20-2013, 12:44 PM

I just wanted to expand a bit on my problems with the defense and inconsistency of foul calls in the paint.

good game design is about providing the user with clearly defined rules about the "correct way to play", and then making sure the outcomes from controller input are consistent so that the user can follow those rules effectively.

this game needs a more consistent vision and logic behind defense and foul calling in the paint. the game needs to have more clearly-defined rules and more consistency about what is a "successful defensive counter" to the offensive player.

as of now, in 2k13, the results are all over the place. sometimes your defender forces a miss with his good positioning...other times you'll do the same controller input in the same situation, but this time you get called for a foul. the biggest problem with defending the paint is when you're just standing still (not moving the left stick) and you get sucked into the offensive player and get called for a shooting foul. this outcome does not appropriately correspond to your controller input (or lack of controller input). this inconsistency and lack of logic behind the defensive outcomes can be infuriating - it often rewards reckless players who force bad shots in the paint...the game often bails them out with undeserved free throws by sucking the defender into contact even when the defender was stationary.

here is how the defense should work when guarding layups and inside shots, EVERY TIME: if the defender is standing still in front of the ball handler (left stick is neutral), and the ball handler tries to force a shot into or over the defender, then the defender should NEVER be called for a foul. it should never result in the defender wrongly being sucked into contact and then being called for a shooting foul (this often happens in 2k13). in this situation, the defender has made the better decision - he has established position, and he has neutralized the left stick...he is stationary. in this situation, the defender should always win...it should either result in a charge, or an "off-balance" altered shot that misses. this should be the result EVERY TIME...not half the time, not 70 percent of the time...EVERY TIME. it needs to be consistent, otherwise the developers are not properly communicating how their game works. don't bail out a poor inside shot with free throws on one play, then on the next play have a defensive stop in the same situation. there needs to be consistency..the game shouldn't change from play to play what it defines as successful defense.

the defender should also not be called for a foul if he is moving away from the shooter or in the same direction as the shooter (left stick moving away or "with" the ball handler). if you are moving the left stick in the same direction as the ball handler, it should be considered good defense, because you are not initiating the contact, you are simply "moving with the ball handler" and you have the same directional momentum as the ball handler.

now, if the defender is moving toward the offensive player (left stick toward ball handler) at the time of the shot, then it should always be a foul. in this case the defensive player has made the wrong decision by moving into the shooter and initiating the contact. again, the defender should be called for a foul EVERY TIME when he moves the left stick toward the shooter and initiates the contact during the shot...if the results are not consistent, then the developers have failed to clearly establish the rules of their game. it's all about left stick direction and who's moving into who. establishing these rules more clearly and making the results more consistent would ensure that the proper player gets rewarded for making the better decision (determining if the offensive player wins and makes the shot or gets fouled...or if the defensive player wins and forces a missed shot).

there also needs to be more intuitive shot blocking control in the paint. you should have more control over the direction your player jumps when he attempts a block, and the aggressiveness with which he jumps. if you are not moving the left stick and you press the block button, your player should ALWAYS jump straight up. this just makes logical sense. if you neutralize the left stick, this indicates that you have no directional momentum and you wish to simply jump straight up. too many times in 2k13, i'll be standing completely still in the paint (left stick is neutral) and i'll hit the block button, but my player will jump TOWARD the shooter and get called for a foul because he jumped into him. if my player had simply jumped STRAIGHT UP, he would've avoided the contact and probably would've gotten a clean block. the direction the player jumps when you hit the block button should always be determined by which direction you are holding the left stick. if you press the left stick all the way forward, he should jump forward and attempt a block, if you press the left sick backwards, he should do an "EVASIVE" jump and try to avoid contact as he blocks...if you aren't moving the left stick at all, he should simply jump STRAIGHT UP with no direction. simple, intuitive, and logical. this would allow players to defend the paint while also being able to avoid initiating contact with the offensive player. it puts the responsibility in the hands of the user...no more of this "automatic" movement where the game decides for me how my player should jump.

again, the defensive logic in the game should be all about rewarding the better decision-maker...it shouldn't be about bailing out a poor decision on one play, then having a different result to the same controller input on another play. please...just give us consistent results, solely based on user controller input. again, good game design is about providing the user with clearly defined rules about the "correct way to play", and then making sure the outcomes from controller input are consistent so that the user can follow those rules effectively. if the results from controller input change from play to play, then the developer has failed to establish a consistent philosophy in their game. without this consistent philosophy, it is not a game, but a collection of random, arbitrary occurrences.

blues rocker · 03-20-2013, 01:26 PM

also, the rebounding is still super cheesy. meaning, players can run up from behind and get rebounds they have no business getting. the other team can have a wall of players blocking out the paint, but somehow an opposing player can knock them aside and grab the ball over all of them when he should've been boxed out or bumped out of position. it's been mentioned a million times, but after playing the game for months, it's one of the major issues that still sticks out. it mostly seems to be an issue with the CPU doing it to the user when they're trying to make a comeback or something. don't bend the laws of physics to force outcomes. if a player is standing in front of another player, the player who is behind can't just warp his way into position. physics, physics, physics. also, my players will often not even try to go after the ball even if they are in better position...they'll often just stand there while the opposing player is super aggressive and goes right for it. weak.

LoSoisNiCEx414 · 03-20-2013, 02:20 PM

Whoever said CREW is not needed GTFOH!

stillfeelme · 03-20-2013, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blues rocker


	also, the rebounding is still super cheesy. meaning, players can run up from behind and get rebounds they have no business getting. the other team can have a wall of players blockinwill t the paint, but somehow an opposing player can knock them aside and grab the ball over all of them when he should've been boxed out or bumped out of position. it's been mentioned a million times, but after playing the game for months, it's one of the major issues that still sticks out. it mostly seems to be an issue with the CPU doing it to the user when they're trying to make a comeback or something. don't bend the laws of physics to force outcomes. if a player is standing in front of another player, the player who is behind can't just warp his way into position. physics, physics, physics. also, my players will often not even try to go after the ball even if they are in better position...they'll often just stand there while the opposing player is super aggressive and goes right for it. weak.

.

I absolutely hate rebounding against the cpu. It is so scripted this is the second year me saying this. Guys are getting rebounds that they have no business getting. Cpu knows exactly where each rebound is going as the shot goes up and will jump over guys, slide you out the way, jump without looking or jump late and still get the board. Guards getting off boards. This game needs tap outs and live ball rebounds. Players need to actually guess on where rebounds are going

thedream2k13 · 03-20-2013, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blues rocker


	I just wanted to expand a bit on my problems with the defense and inconsistency of foul calls in the paint. good game design is about providing the user with clearly defined rules about the "correct way to play", and then making sure the outcomes from controller input are consistent so that the user can follow those rules effectively. this game needs a more consistent vision and logic behind defense and foul calling in the paint. the game needs to have more clearly-defined rules and more consistency about what is a "successful defensive counter" to the offensive player. as of now, in 2k13, the results are all over the place. sometimes your defender forces a miss with his good positioning...other times you'll do the same controller input in the same situation, but this time you get called for a foul. the biggest problem with defending the paint is when you're just standing still (not moving the left stick) and you get sucked into the offensive player and get called for a shooting foul. this outcome does not appropriately correspond to your controller input (or lack of controller input). this inconsistency and lack of logic behind the defensive outcomes can be infuriating - it often rewards reckless players who force bad shots in the paint...the game often bails them out with undeserved free throws by sucking the defender into contact even when the defender was stationary. here is how the defense should work when guarding layups and inside shots, EVERY TIME: if the defender is standing still in front of the ball handler (left stick is neutral), and the ball handler tries to force a shot into or over the defender, then the defender should NEVER be called for a foul. it should never result in the defender wrongly being sucked into contact and then being called for a shooting foul (this often happens in 2k13). in this situation, the defender has made the better decision - he has established position, and he has neutralized the left stick...he is stationary. in this situation, the defender should always win...it should either result in a charge, or an "off-balance" altered shot that misses. this should be the result EVERY TIME...not half the time, not 70 percent of the time...EVERY TIME. it needs to be consistent, otherwise the developers are not properly communicating what the rules of the game are. stop bailing out poor decision-makers with undeserved free throws. the defender should also not be called for a foul if he is moving away from the shooter or in the same direction as the shooter. if you are moving the left stick in the same direction as the ball handler, it should be considered good defense, because you are not initiating the contact, you are simply "moving with the ball handler" and you have the same directional momentum as the ball handler. now, if the defender is moving toward the offensive player at the time of the shot, then it should be a foul. in this case the defensive player has made the wrong decision by moving into the shooter and initiating the contact. again, the defender should be called for a foul EVERY TIME when he moves the left stick toward the shooter and initiates the contact during the shot...if the results are not consistent, then the developers have failed to clearly establish the rules of their game. it's all about left stick direction and who's moving into who. establishing these rules more clearly and making the results more consistent would ensure that the proper player gets rewarded for making the better decision (determining if the offensive player wins and makes the shot or gets fouled...or if the defensive player wins and forces a missed shot). there also needs to be more intuitive shot blocking control in the paint. you should have more control over the direction your player jumps when he attempts a block, and the aggressiveness with which he jumps. if you are not moving the left stick and you press the block button, your player should ALWAYS jump straight up. this just makes logical sense. if you neutralize the left stick, this indicates that you have no directional momentum and you wish to simply jump straight up. too many times in 2k13, i'll be standing completely still in the paint (left stick is neutral) and i'll hit the block button, but my player will jump TOWARD the shooter and get called for a foul because he jumped into him. if my player had simply jumped STRAIGHT UP, he would've avoided the contact and probably would've gotten a clean block. the direction the player jumps when you hit the block button should always be determined by which direction you are holding the left stick. if you press the left stick all the way forward, he should jump forward and attempt a block, if you press the left sick backwards, he should do an "EVASIVE" jump and try to avoid contact as he blocks...if you aren't moving the left stick at all, he should simply jump STRAIGHT UP with no direction. simple, intuitive, and logical. this would allow players to defend the paint while also being able to avoid initiating contact with the offensive player. it puts the responsibility in the hands of the user...no more of this "automatic" movement where the game decides for me how my player should jump. again, the defensive logic in the game should be all about rewarding the better decision-maker...it shouldn't be about bailing out poor decisions, then changing the outcomes at another time when it's convenient. please...just give us consistent results, solely based on user controller input. again, good game design is about providing the user with clearly defined rules about the "correct way to play", and then making sure the outcomes from controller input are consistent so that the user can follow those rules effectively.

sounds nice but 2k needs to make lebron and iggy dunk on you for multiple highlights regardless of defenders in the way. Gotta make the casuals happy so they can save their replays to youtube!!

Rockie_Fresh88 · 03-20-2013, 05:42 PM

Please please

Revamp the momentum system
Revamp Rebounding
Fix the loose/50-50 balls
Player movement all the sliding sucks

Just make the feel less scripted

Paul Pierce_OS · 03-20-2013, 10:36 PM

More blocks...

MarvinOida · 03-21-2013, 12:27 AM

Ability to post hex editable rosters on 2k Share with no problem like 2K12 and before... :/

03-20-2013, 12:44 PM	#425
blues rocker MVP OVR: 14 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cleveland, OH	Re: NBA 2K14 Wishlist Thread I just wanted to expand a bit on my problems with the defense and inconsistency of foul calls in the paint. good game design is about providing the user with clearly defined rules about the "correct way to play", and then making sure the outcomes from controller input are consistent so that the user can follow those rules effectively. this game needs a more consistent vision and logic behind defense and foul calling in the paint. the game needs to have more clearly-defined rules and more consistency about what is a "successful defensive counter" to the offensive player. as of now, in 2k13, the results are all over the place. sometimes your defender forces a miss with his good positioning...other times you'll do the same controller input in the same situation, but this time you get called for a foul. the biggest problem with defending the paint is when you're just standing still (not moving the left stick) and you get sucked into the offensive player and get called for a shooting foul. this outcome does not appropriately correspond to your controller input (or lack of controller input). this inconsistency and lack of logic behind the defensive outcomes can be infuriating - it often rewards reckless players who force bad shots in the paint...the game often bails them out with undeserved free throws by sucking the defender into contact even when the defender was stationary. here is how the defense should work when guarding layups and inside shots, EVERY TIME: if the defender is standing still in front of the ball handler (left stick is neutral), and the ball handler tries to force a shot into or over the defender, then the defender should NEVER be called for a foul. it should never result in the defender wrongly being sucked into contact and then being called for a shooting foul (this often happens in 2k13). in this situation, the defender has made the better decision - he has established position, and he has neutralized the left stick...he is stationary. in this situation, the defender should always win...it should either result in a charge, or an "off-balance" altered shot that misses. this should be the result EVERY TIME...not half the time, not 70 percent of the time...EVERY TIME. it needs to be consistent, otherwise the developers are not properly communicating how their game works. don't bail out a poor inside shot with free throws on one play, then on the next play have a defensive stop in the same situation. there needs to be consistency..the game shouldn't change from play to play what it defines as successful defense. the defender should also not be called for a foul if he is moving away from the shooter or in the same direction as the shooter (left stick moving away or "with" the ball handler). if you are moving the left stick in the same direction as the ball handler, it should be considered good defense, because you are not initiating the contact, you are simply "moving with the ball handler" and you have the same directional momentum as the ball handler. now, if the defender is moving toward the offensive player (left stick toward ball handler) at the time of the shot, then it should always be a foul. in this case the defensive player has made the wrong decision by moving into the shooter and initiating the contact. again, the defender should be called for a foul EVERY TIME when he moves the left stick toward the shooter and initiates the contact during the shot...if the results are not consistent, then the developers have failed to clearly establish the rules of their game. it's all about left stick direction and who's moving into who. establishing these rules more clearly and making the results more consistent would ensure that the proper player gets rewarded for making the better decision (determining if the offensive player wins and makes the shot or gets fouled...or if the defensive player wins and forces a missed shot). there also needs to be more intuitive shot blocking control in the paint. you should have more control over the direction your player jumps when he attempts a block, and the aggressiveness with which he jumps. if you are not moving the left stick and you press the block button, your player should ALWAYS jump straight up. this just makes logical sense. if you neutralize the left stick, this indicates that you have no directional momentum and you wish to simply jump straight up. too many times in 2k13, i'll be standing completely still in the paint (left stick is neutral) and i'll hit the block button, but my player will jump TOWARD the shooter and get called for a foul because he jumped into him. if my player had simply jumped STRAIGHT UP, he would've avoided the contact and probably would've gotten a clean block. the direction the player jumps when you hit the block button should always be determined by which direction you are holding the left stick. if you press the left stick all the way forward, he should jump forward and attempt a block, if you press the left sick backwards, he should do an "EVASIVE" jump and try to avoid contact as he blocks...if you aren't moving the left stick at all, he should simply jump STRAIGHT UP with no direction. simple, intuitive, and logical. this would allow players to defend the paint while also being able to avoid initiating contact with the offensive player. it puts the responsibility in the hands of the user...no more of this "automatic" movement where the game decides for me how my player should jump. again, the defensive logic in the game should be all about rewarding the better decision-maker...it shouldn't be about bailing out a poor decision on one play, then having a different result to the same controller input on another play. please...just give us consistent results, solely based on user controller input. again, good game design is about providing the user with clearly defined rules about the "correct way to play", and then making sure the outcomes from controller input are consistent so that the user can follow those rules effectively. if the results from controller input change from play to play, then the developer has failed to establish a consistent philosophy in their game. without this consistent philosophy, it is not a game, but a collection of random, arbitrary occurrences. belikemike likes this. Last edited by blues rocker; 03-22-2013 at 11:18 AM.

03-20-2013, 01:26 PM	#426
blues rocker MVP OVR: 14 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cleveland, OH	Re: NBA 2K14 Wishlist Thread also, the rebounding is still super cheesy. meaning, players can run up from behind and get rebounds they have no business getting. the other team can have a wall of players blocking out the paint, but somehow an opposing player can knock them aside and grab the ball over all of them when he should've been boxed out or bumped out of position. it's been mentioned a million times, but after playing the game for months, it's one of the major issues that still sticks out. it mostly seems to be an issue with the CPU doing it to the user when they're trying to make a comeback or something. don't bend the laws of physics to force outcomes. if a player is standing in front of another player, the player who is behind can't just warp his way into position. physics, physics, physics. also, my players will often not even try to go after the ball even if they are in better position...they'll often just stand there while the opposing player is super aggressive and goes right for it. weak. belikemike, mars5541 and stillfeelme like this. Last edited by blues rocker; 03-20-2013 at 01:30 PM.

03-20-2013, 02:20 PM	#427
LoSoisNiCEx414 MVP OVR: 0 Join Date: Sep 2010	Re: NBA 2K14 Wishlist Thread Whoever said CREW is not needed GTFOH!

03-20-2013, 05:42 PM	#430
Rockie_Fresh88 Lockdown Defender OVR: 17 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: In the Trap Posts: 9,684	Re: NBA 2K14 Wishlist Thread Please please Revamp the momentum system Revamp Rebounding Fix the loose/50-50 balls Player movement all the sliding sucks Just make the feel less scripted BluFu, belikemike and stillfeelme like this. __________________ #1 Laker fan *First Team Defense !!!*

03-20-2013, 10:36 PM	#431
Paul Pierce_OS Don't Kill My Vibe OVR: 61 Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,628 Blog Entries: 8	More blocks... __________________ NBA 2k13 project: OS Collab Roster: Swagged Out! http://www.operationsports.com/forum...box-360-a.html "The Future of Sports Gaming" Twitter: @__JonathanLucas

	MLB The Show 24 Review: Another Solid Hit for the Series
	New Star GP Review: Old-School Arcade Fun
	Where Are Our College Basketball Video Game Rumors?

03-21-2013, 12:27 AM	#432
MarvinOida MVP OVR: 20 Join Date: Feb 2012	Ability to post hex editable rosters on 2k Share with no problem like 2K12 and before... :/ __________________ Xbox 360 Rosters: NBAE League Roster Project (2K13) NBAE League (2K14) Xbox One Rosters: NBAE Pro-Am League (2K16)

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