NEW Auction house structure

[nzjase]

By way of background I work in financial analysis so focusing on numbers is a bit of a habit and given the fact that I have not been able to sell an epic card in over a month, yet UR and legends move, has had me wondering what the relationship is between the various card tiers and their minimums on the AH.

Below are my findings and a couple of suggestions.

Findings

First I want to say the way the card tiers are structured is very smart (I am talking for progression and game play not within the AH set-up). The fact you can progress say from Epic QG to Legend QG by having no legs but proing your epics which are then slightly stronger than the next level up (e.g legends) is great for grinding and working your way up. Therefore I was surprised when I found that there is NO correlation between the card tiers and their auction house minimums.

I would have thought based on the above progression through the tiers we would see:

1) a relationship between a lower level pro card and the next level up non-pro in terms of pricing; and

2) we would have seen a consistent relationship between the cost of a non-pro and pro version of a card; and

3) a consistent setting of minimums across the board.

None of the above is the case.

All figures quoted below refer to the minimum bid, I think the minimum buy now is fine and consistent at 20%.

• An ultra rare card has a 20% lower min bid than a super rare pro. OK, accepted, it is a slightly weaker card
  
• An epic card is 117% MORE to list than an UR pro. What is going on here?
  
  As mentioned above the card relationships between lower and higher tiers is the same from SR -> UR -> Epic -> Leg -> Star so if an UR single is 20% lower than a SR pro then shouldn't an Epic non pro be 20% lower than a UR pro? Not 117% higher?
  
• Moving on to legendary here we find a different relationship again, a legend has the same minimum bid as an Epic pro (0% difference, this actually makes the most sense to me) but differs greatly from the 117% for Epics and -20% for Ultra rares.
  
• Lastly you go to stars and find they are 9% lower than a leg pro… again no consistency.

A number of these inconsistency are also due to the minimum bid prices of the pro versions of cards compared to their non pro versions.

1. UR pro - 50% higher than UR non pro
2. Epic pro 54% higher than Epic non pro
3. Leg pro - 175% higher than Leg non pro
4. Star pro - 120% higher than star non pro

Obviously a pro version needs to be more costly than a non pro version but a range of 50% to 175% is crazy. 1) Where is the consistency, an Epic pro's power compare to an Epic non pro is the same as a leg pro vs a non leg so why the 54% vs 175% mark up?

Few people (other than the lazy or "must have now brigade") are willing to pay much in excess of double for a pro version. They might as well by two non pro's and level and combine themselves.

The above numbers also support my own personal experience with the auction house.

That is that I can sell ultra rare non pros, ultra rare pros and legends at current minimum levels (because they are all much more enticing than the respective comparable next level cards around them) but that it is nearly impossible to sell an epic at a minimum of 1300 or a leg pro at more than a non pro star. I have tried since the beta Auction house and have never sold an epic... probably about 300 credits wasted listing a variety of 3 slot fully trained epics with no luck. That is completely down to an incompatible set-up of card tier minimums.

My suggestions

To fix the auction house we don't need to do away with 20 credits for listing, we don't need to lower minimums across the board (I would actually raise some but lower others) and the min buy now at 20% is fine.

I would like to see the auction house cut % reduced but that is only to entice trading and is definitely not the purpose of this thread. If CD has other reasons for this cut or doesn't want to entice a more liquid trade based AH then I am comfortable with it.

The key point in this thread is fixing these minimums so they ALL represent a fair value for a card with respect to the card tiers either side.

Below are my suggestions, note these are all based on the following rules.

• A pro version of the card is 105% of the value of a non pro version. This is to reflect the two non pro cards plus the time and value in having trained a correct pro version.
  
  FYI I initially has this at 75% based on the numbers above but that give values a little to low IMO
  
• A non pro card has a minimum bid set at 10% higher than the pro version of the tier below. This reflects the desirability of a higher level card e.g. a legend > epic pro. While the pro version the tier below (say epic pro) is a slightly stronger card than the non pro version the level above (a legendary card) the Epic pro has nowhere to go while the leg card can be pro'd and become significantly stronger, hence the increased desirability and higher starting cost.
  
• All numbers rounded to the nearest 25 credits

New card level BID minimums (Buy minimums set to at least 20%)

1. UR non pro - 400
2. UR pro - 825
3. Epic - 900
4. Epic pro - 1,575
5. Leg - 1,725
6. Leg pro - 3,025
7. Star - 3,325
8. Star pro - 5,825

You will notice that a number of these are still pretty close to what we currently have while the like of Epic and Star reflect what is happening in reality on the forums via buybacks and the KEY is that all the levels are consistent which reflects the reality amongst the tiers when actually playing the game. UR cards aren't really 20% weaker than Super pros while Epics are 117% stronger than UR pros...

I think star values look a little low but that is only because of current pack costs which overvalue cards considerably. That being said we are already seeing 2k buy backs when purchasing a star like Swaggy and World B Free indicating they really are only worth 3-3.5k. You will never be able to sell these players with the current auction house set up.

Lastly, remember these are only MINIMUMS and help ensure cards actually start selling. Players like Klay, Kyrie, Lebron etc will still see significantly higher than minimum as they are desirable.

The main concern and reason I see CD not implementing something more reasonable like the above is that it isn't in line with their card pack pricing but the reason for this is that their card packs aren't in line with the perceived value the community is placing on the cards in the auction house.

Anyway have at it, these are only my thoughts and I am open to comments and criticism (hence posting it here). I just wanted to post something constructive, with actual suggestions for improvement, as opposed to the bitching I have done previously about the current patch changes.

Cheers and apologies for the novel.

[Melcho]

Yeah this has kind of been talked about to death. Nice analysis, appreciate the effort, but they ain't dropping the mins or making changes any time soon.

How's the season rewards campaign going?

[nzjase]

Quote: Originally Posted by Melcho

Yeah this has kind of been talked about to death. Nice analysis, appreciate the effort, but they ain't dropping the mins or making changes any time soon. How's the season rewards campaign going?

Given up on seasons mate. This is different, this is just common sense and only a tweak to the minimums to make each card equally appealing depending on what tier you are in.

As it currently stands Epics have zero value, likewise Leg pros.

CD reduced the buy now price so they are open to some change. Hoping this is something that will also change.

As it stands I have 21 worthless epics.

[Bane]

Yeah I doubt they will make any more changes to AH but keep all the suggestions coming in they might apply them for mynba2k16.

[GhostKiller]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bane

Yeah I doubt they will make any more changes to AH but keep all the suggestions coming in they might apply them for mynba2k16.

unfortunely i guess you are right .

[vauux]

The problem is you are thinking like a player and what would benefit the user base. Cashdaddy is only thinking about how they can crank out as much money as possible while the game is still going. They may read your suggestions but if it doesn't somehow improve their earnings, it will be ignored entirely.

[tetimeovd]

They may read your suggestions but if it doesn't somehow improve their earnings, it will be ignored entirely.

[eVizions]

I love your analysis. It makes a ton of sense on every level. A few things I want to comment on.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

First I want to say the way the card tiers are structured is very smart (I am talking for progression and game play not within the AH set-up). The fact you can progress say from Epic QG to Legend QG by having no legs but proing your epics which are then slightly stronger than the next level up (e.g legends) is great for grinding and working your way up.

I agree. I think this was set up very well.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

Therefore I was surprised when I found that there is NO correlation between the card tiers and their auction house minimums.

Yep, they seem to have arbitrarily picked numbers. Like out of a hat.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

Few people (other than the lazy or "must have now brigade") are willing to pay much in excess of double for a pro version. They might as well by two non pro's and level and combine themselves.

There is zero reason to force someone to pay more than double for the reason you stated. Personally, I don't even think it should be double.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

To fix the auction house we don't need to do away with 20 credits for listing, we don't need to lower minimums across the board (I would actually raise some but lower others) and the min buy now at 20% is fine.

Couldn't disagree more with everything in this paragraph, but I won't get into it because it's not relevant to the topic at hand. I'd love to hear your logic on this, though.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

I would like to see the auction house cut % reduced but that is only to entice trading and is definitely not the purpose of this thread.

Also off topic, but I absolutely think it should be cut... significantly. What would you recommend they cut it to?

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

A pro version of the card is 105% of the value of a non pro version. This is to reflect the two non pro cards plus the time and value in having trained a correct pro version.

This is probably the biggest area that I disagree. You are making the assumption that, not only is the card properly trained, but that it's trained at all. What about 2 Rare cards both combined at level 0 and then filled up? I bought several of these during the beta, to use as training fodder. The fact that it's a pro means I got 5 more levels filled up for the same price as a single, fully trained Rare. What about a pro version - properly trained - at level 0? That's literally the same thing as 2 singles, so why the need for a bump? If anything, shouldn't it be significantly less than 200% of a single? Right now, single Stars are barely selling at 5k, but Star Pros are doing even worse. You're also missing certain market factors, like a higher demand for singles because users often want to dup a card they already have.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

FYI I initially has this at 75% based on the numbers above but that give values a little to low IMO

Not sure why that's low. That's much more in line with what I think. If you're going to have a separate price for a single and a pro (which I don't necessarily think is a good idea), it has to be much lower than 100%. Even 75% seems high to me.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

A non pro card has a minimum bid set at 10% higher than the pro version of the tier below. This reflects the desirability of a higher level card e.g. a legend > epic pro. While the pro version the tier below (say epic pro) is a slightly stronger card than the non pro version the level above (a legendary card) the Epic pro has nowhere to go while the leg card can be pro'd and become significantly stronger, hence the increased desirability and higher starting cost.

But you're assigning the values based on what the card IS, not what it CAN BE. If you are assuming that a Legendary card should be worth more than an Epic Pro because it CAN be pro'd, why are you assigning a different value for an actually pro'd Legendary? I think the numbers should reflect the actual value/power of a card. If you want to say that a single Legendary should be the same as an Epic Pro, I'm okay with that, but an argument can be made that it should be less.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

New card level BID minimums (Buy minimums set to at least 20%) UR non pro - 400 UR pro - 825 Epic - 900 Epic pro - 1,575 Leg - 1,725 Leg pro - 3,025 Star - 3,325 Star pro - 5,825

This is significantly better than what we have right now. I don't think it's perfect, but it's definitely an improvement. This, plus a serious reduction in the tax, would make AH tolerable.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

I think star values look a little low but that is only because of current pack costs which overvalue cards considerably.

This seems to be everyone's argument. My take on it is that, before AH, packs (along with HS) were the only real way for CD to make money. They relied on people buying packs. Now that AH is up, packs shouldn't be considered the primary source of revenue, so we shouldn't have to consider the cost of packs when valuing minimum prices.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

That being said we are already seeing 2k buy backs when purchasing a star like Swaggy and World B Free indicating they really are only worth 3-3.5k. You will never be able to sell these players with the current auction house set up.

Bingo. The market is dictating prices, and it's clearly telling CD that they are set way too high. If they want trade (which, I assume they do, considering the created a god damn auction house), you can't ignore that people really HAVE to do buy backs to make AH viable.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

Lastly, remember these are only MINIMUMS and help ensure cards actually start selling. Players like Klay, Kyrie, Lebron etc will still see significantly higher than minimum as they are desirable.

Certain players will always go for more. I also think that most other players will eventually go for more than the minimum, as well, once the overstock starts to shrink. Right now there are 1.2 billion single [insert crappy player here] Star cards in the wild. Once they are mostly sold at the minimum and combined and held, the supply thins and now there may be some demand.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

The main concern and reason I see CD not implementing something more reasonable like the above is that it isn't in line with their card pack pricing but the reason for this is that their card packs aren't in line with the perceived value the community is placing on the cards in the auction house.

Or they're just idiots. Considering the moves they've made with this game, I'm starting to think that may be the case.

Quote: Originally Posted by nzjase

Anyway have at it, these are only my thoughts and I am open to comments and criticism (hence posting it here). I just wanted to post something constructive, with actual suggestions for improvement, as opposed to the bitching I have done previously about the current patch changes. Cheers and apologies for the novel.

Great work. While I didn't agree with everything, your analysis was awesome. I think CD should seriously considering listening to people like you more. I know they're a small company, but it wouldn't hurt to hire a few consultants in areas that would improve the game, like financial analysis (and basketball analysis).