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Realistic Rosters/Sliders/Coaching Tendencies *Complete Overhaul*

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Old 02-11-2012, 07:37 AM   #473
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Re: Realistic Rosters/Sliders/Coaching Tendencies *Complete Overhaul*

I'm updating with the latest roster of "slimm44", all the shoes of the players, for now I have completed 15 teams

Last edited by s.tambo; 02-11-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:07 AM   #474
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Re: Realistic Rosters/Sliders/Coaching Tendencies *Complete Overhaul*

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.tambo
I'm updating with the latest roster of "slimm44", all the shoes of the players, for now I have completed 15 teams
Are you just adding the IFF's or something different?
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:33 AM   #475
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Icon9 Re: Realistic Rosters/Sliders/Coaching Tendencies *Complete Overhaul*

This is probably no the place to ask such thing, but here's my problem.


I LOVE the attention to detail you gave to the stats and gameplay options. Mostly everyone uses hoopdata and baskeball reference to edit the attributes of the big time player, but I haven't seen anyone else that editted mostly every attribute for every player in the game, and the time spent on coaching profiles, tendencies, minutes and etc can't be compared to anything released and will probably end up being this way (Unless rashidi ends up releasing something ridiculous and porting it to PC).


But sometimes I also enjoy using Albys rosters from NLSC because of the unrivaled attention he gave to cosmetics, new shoes and edited shoes for mostly every player, accesories for every player, team colors, team socks and headbands, sig shots/dunk packages for everyone, even some updates bodies and etc.


So obviously what I'd like would be to combine this 2 things, but I'm absolutely lost as to how

I haven't used REDItor but is there anyway I could use that to create a script with all your player attributes/tendencies/plays/minutes/coachingprofiles or a way to copy them into the other roster (or the other way around) without going insane and spending 18 days? or any other plausible way to do this, all suggestions appreciated.



P.D. Slimm, did you ever use synergy to update anything regarding defense/post defense for players? or decided against it.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:39 PM   #476
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I haven't updated defensive ratings/tendencies to synergy because I'm not sure how their stats would translate and I'm not sure how to scale them, what the minimum and maximum stats are, etc. If you can figure those out, ill implement them.

If you have the guru version of REDitor it would be very easy to copy and paste the player information from my roster over albys cosmetics. Feel free to use mine, but MAKE SURE to get his explicit permission before using his if you plan on releasing the combination to the community.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:06 PM   #477
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Re: Realistic Rosters/Sliders/Coaching Tendencies *Complete Overhaul*

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Originally Posted by slimm44
I haven't updated defensive ratings/tendencies to synergy because I'm not sure how their stats would translate and I'm not sure how to scale them, what the minimum and maximum stats are, etc. If you can figure those out, ill implement them.

If you have the guru version of REDitor it would be very easy to copy and paste the player information from my roster over albys cosmetics. Feel free to use mine, but MAKE SURE to get his explicit permission before using his if you plan on releasing the combination to the community.
It would be easy to find a scale since they show you what ranking that player is among the nba, so just finding who the top ranked guys are and give them 99 or close, and then the absolute worst bottom guys on the ranking and give them a very low, and scale from there while only rating guys with at least 100 possessions defended.

(For example make a mix between whatever is iggy/LeBron/Dwight's overall Opponent PPP and Opponent FG% into a 99 for on ball defense)

From last year's numbers when I checked at the end of the season, the absolute top defenders had around 0.69 PPP given overall, and around 35% for opponent FG% (A mixture of those 2 would add to 99 on on ball defense, and the farther it went from them it would lower?). and the Amare Stoudemire's had 1.01+ PPP given and high 40's FG%. The problem is as of right now you can't check last season's ratings wich would be a great accurate representation. At least on free version I can only check current season data, wich is a very small sample size and has crazy data (for example Tony Allen hasnt been very good so far even tho we know he is a spectacular defender), so it's probably better to wait some more time in order to change those.

Same for Post PPP given and FG%, wich would directly translate to the in game rating of post defense in a similar 0.6-1.1 PPP given, and 35-50 Opponent FG%.

Defensive Awareness couldn't and shouldn't be updated based on this, since theres no stat at all that quantifies it (help defense/rotations)

I don't have the guru version of reditor, is it a paid one?. If such is the case then sadly I'll never be able to fulfill my wish, since I can't afford to pay for a tool just to update my roster. I will be forced to wait and see if any caritative soul ever wishes to do this.

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Old 02-11-2012, 02:39 PM   #478
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Re: Realistic Rosters/Sliders/Coaching Tendencies *Complete Overhaul*

Quote:
Originally Posted by -CoL-
It would be easy to find a scale since they show you what ranking that player is among the nba, so just finding who the top ranked guys are and give them 99 or close, and then the absolute worst bottom guys on the ranking and give them a very low, and scale from there while only rating guys with at least 100 possessions defended.

(For example make a mix between whatever is iggy/LeBron/Dwight's overall Opponent PPP and Opponent FG% into a 99 for on ball defense)

From last year's numbers when I checked at the end of the season, the absolute top defenders had around 0.69 PPP given overall, and around 35% for opponent FG% (A mixture of those 2 would add to 99 on on ball defense, and the farther it went from them it would lower?). and the Amare Stoudemire's had 1.01+ PPP given and high 40's FG%. The problem is as of right now you can't check last season's ratings wich would be a great accurate representation. At least on free version I can only check current season data, wich is a very small sample size and has crazy data (for example Tony Allen hasnt been very good so far even tho we know he is a spectacular defender), so it's probably better to wait some more time in order to change those.

Same for Post PPP given and FG%, wich would directly translate to the in game rating of post defense in a similar 0.6-1.1 PPP given, and 35-50 Opponent FG%.

Defensive Awareness couldn't and shouldn't be updated based on this, since theres no stat at all that quantifies it (help defense/rotations)

I don't have the guru version of reditor, is it a paid one?. If such is the case then sadly I'll never be able to fulfill my wish, since I can't afford to pay for a tool just to update my roster. I will be forced to wait and see if any caritative soul ever wishes to do this.
A few things:

1. I misspoke earlier. You could copy and paste my ratings and tendencies on top of Alby's roster with the free verson of REDitor. Again, only with his permission.

2. I'll keep looking into mysynergy. Please, keep typing your thoughts out. We'll probably be able to figure out something for defensive awareness, low-post defense and on-ball defense if you do. I hadn't noticed the rankings before. That's a big help.

Would you mind beginning to catalog the information you find on mysynergy? Preferably sorted by position and listing the amount of times the player defended that type of play and their ranking? The reason I ask is I looked up Dwight Howard first. He ranks as the #70 player in post defense PPP in the league. I'm pretty certain there aren't 69 better post defenders in the league than him. If you could do this part, it would make it a lot easier for me to implement the edits.
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:11 PM   #479
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Re: Realistic Rosters/Sliders/Coaching Tendencies *Complete Overhaul*

I'm preparing a file with the pshoes and the generic shoes, then I'm assigning with ReEditor the shoes for every players

Last edited by s.tambo; 02-11-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #480
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Re: Realistic Rosters/Sliders/Coaching Tendencies *Complete Overhaul*

There's 2 reasons for Dwight showing up as 70th.

The first is that the data doesn't discriminate volume (or position). so if someone, some role player with 2 minutes played total in the season, a pg even, went in to the post for a single possession and his opponent happened to miss the shot, that guy would show up with 0 ppp given and 0% opposing fg% instantly earning the rank 1, meanwhile actual post defenders like Dwight have defended over 50 or so times in post plays during the season so they of course have more realistic data, this will never change tho (at least for the free version), so whenever you decide to start analyzing data, you should set a minimum number of possessions for data to be valid. For a complete season I would say around 400 overall possessions, and for post defense around 70 possessions at least. Also some context, and common sense wich can't be cuantified needs to be set into this, players like Howard, Tony Allen, Iguodala, LeBron would he assigned to prime offensive weapon on the opposing teams every night. Some of their teammates (and tons of players around the league) might have competent numbers but it needs to be taken in consideration that they are assigned to the third, or fourth best offensive weapon on the oppossing team every night.


The second and most important is that it's too early in the season, it's a very, very small sample size as of right now in a crazy season with a lot of conditioning problems that will fluctuate too much for it to be worth it to start looking into the numbers so soon. Dwight gave up around 0,73 Points Per Possession last season, that was spectacular and around top 3 in the nba, as of right now he is shown having 0,83 wich would have been "good" defender last season; now I'm pretty sure if you wait a month or two he will slowly move into that lower .70's range once more possessions are accounted for.

Dirk is a prime example of this, in the past 2 years under carlisle he has been surprisingly a very good defender, with data to back it up, even last season he was actually better than KG (except defending the pick and roll where KG was the absolute best in the nba. I actually had a screenshot I took with data from last season comparing those 2, check that out for comparissons a couple paragraphs below). I've been following his numbers this season and since he started with no conditioning, no knees, and not being able to jump he couldn't catch up with anyone or manage to stop a shot, he started the season giving up around 1.3 PPP, was near the absolute bottom of the barrel (except defending the post since he doesn't have to move or jump for this, he has had good post d numbers as usual), in the past weeks he has slowly improved and the past games have moved him to 0,99 currently, wich should continue to go down.


On the other hand, athletic players like Kevin Love who started the season with great conditioning, even being historically awful defenders managed to take advantage of everyone else's poor form and started with elite numbers that are slowly going up.

In short, data is tainted, there's no point on trying to come up with ratings now because everyone's numbers will fluctuate too much, too soon. You can start checking them out to familiarize with how they work, but it would be a waste of time to start taking numbers before AT LEAST another month, month and a half.




Defensive Awareness is absolutely impossible to quantify, since in real life it would translate to help defense, defensive rotations and the like, and this doesn't affect any number but actually watching the games.
Brandon Bass for example, has had ELITE numbers (will obviously go up soon though), for overall PPP given, but this only accounts for those possessions where the player he is defending actually stays on him and attempts to score on him, but doesn't account for the many times opponents just blow past him. If you watch him you'll see he never rotates on defense, sometimes stands around while his teammates try to cover every hole he creates, and never shows up to help when a teammate get's blown by, he basically sets his eyes someone and stays on him indifferent with everything that goes on around him.

Dirk-Garnett comparisson from the entire 2011 season:






Do you know where could I find a guide to learn to use REditor properly?.

I would be interested in copying your player attributes, coaching profiles, player and team tendencies, and rotations (and basically everything but the comestics). Could all of this be done? or only the player attributes?

Last edited by -CoL-; 02-11-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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