The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

[ehh]

1) This happens on all cellar dwelling teams in all sports. There should be anger and resentment in the locker room.

2) While THJr is the last person who should be calling Melo out it's about time someone did and got his in his face. Melo is the biggest phony in the last 25 years in the NBA. Every criticism he gets is deserved, the "he's so criticized that he's now one of the more underrated players in the NBA" is way off. No "great" player would have their team at 4-19. You put any of the other top guys in this league on the Knicks right now instead of Melo and we're a lot better than 4-19. Melo is clearly letting the growing pains on the offensive end of the floor impact his rebounding and defense, just like it always has. He goes in the tank when his offense isn't on point. He stops playing hard and gets lazier than usual. His mental toughness is embarrassing.

3) This is a work in progress and an example of the culture that we need to change. We have selfish, stupid players all over the roster. We have so many guys that don't, or won't, defend. We have all these divas that need to be shown the door.

4) This team has absolutely zero leadership. None in the locker room and it doesn't seem like Fisher is providing much either. We mentioned this last year but the only time Melo has ever been successful is when he has older vets to handle the leadership duties like he did two years ago with Sheed, Kidd and Kurt Thomas. Melo is a child, he's concerned with getting his and that's it. I don't think he's mentally or emotionally capable of being a leader. He doesn't get it, he's not wired that way, he'll never lead. I've said this since before Melo ever joined the Knicks - when the going gets tough Melo packs it in, sulks and let's the situation win. He's not resilient, he never has been unless you misconstrue his endless gunning as being resilient. I'm sure he'll get a pass for plenty of fans thanks to his knee woes. It seems like Melo has zero interest in basketball this season. Four more years of him, brutal.

[bigeastbumrush]

Well Melo flat out said he's more concerned with his brand than anything else.

You would think for a guy whose never won would have more desire for what happens on the court and wins and losses.

I think he's packed it in. Early.

I also think some of the assistant coaches (mainly Rambis) want Fisher to fail.

I turned to the Pelicans game late (haven't watched a Knick game end to end all season) and JR just brought the ball up court and shot it. Not one pass. Nothing.

Any other coach wouldve hooked him. But Fisher kept him in and didn't even say anything to him at the timeout.

Fact is: we boneheadedly bid against ourselves for Melo. I wish we forced his hand to Chicago but that's water under the bridge at this point.

It's very hard to win in this league with guys who have never won. Phil's "loser mentality" was spot on. You see it with so many players around the league sitting on fat contracts but don't have that fire in the belly to win (Melo, Rudy Gay, DWill, etc).

At this point, only seeing Okafor holding up a Knicks jersey in June can make me smile.

[ehh]

Assuming for a second that Broussard's report was actually correct, tell me that this isn't the biggest "loser's mentatility" statement ever...

Quote:

Players believe the system -- which has been implemented under first-year team president and 11-time championship winning coach Phil Jackson -- is predictable and want to run something else, the report says.

So an offense that's heavily based on read-and-react to the defense is predictable? An offense that's biggest strength is that it IS NOT predictable...and our ******* roster thinks it's too predictable. An offense that won 11 titles is too easy to stop?

They want to go back to Woody's ultra-predictable/uncreative isolation offense that won us absolutely nothing, and has never won a damn thing in NBA history, period. Back to Meloball?

Quote:

Last season, under Woodson, the Knicks switched on defense. This season, under Fisher, they don't switch, which has some players grumbling.

So our locker room wants to go back to Woody's defensive system which promoted laziness and lack of accountability. They want to go back to Woody's defensive system that made us one of the worst defenses in the NBA and drove a former DPOY absolutely insane. Awesome.

Quote:

Also, the day after losses, Woodson would typically hold voluntarily workouts that were light and nondemanding. Fisher, however, holds full-fledged practices and works the players hard. "Guys are definitely frustrated," one source said. "But some of it's just basketball stuff that the players don't like doing. When somebody's demanding that you make a hard cut, you don't like it because you have to work harder. When someone says it's not OK to throw a bulls--- pass, guys don't like it." But the players don't feel like Fisher is being too hard on them, sources said. In fact, some feel his sideline demeanor is too stoic and that they would like to see more emotion out of him.

Similar to above, our locker room wants to go back to Woody's ways, the player's coach who was way too easy on them and allowed them to slack off? Allowed them to play lazy defense. Just to be clear - our professional, NBA basketball players do not want to do basic basketball things. Let that sink in for a minute.

Our roster is SO ****ING STUPID! These AAU era players man, just go "full Spurs" and make 90% of the roster foreign-born players. I'm pretty sure I'm done for the year, I can't bother with this group of losers anymore.

[bigeastbumrush]

I said to myself the same thing about AAU.

These dudes stay dapping each other up instead of knocking someone on their behind.

I'm actually not sick of what's going on this year because- 1. I haven't invested the time to watch this garbage and 2. I just knew they'd be bad after watching the preseason.

I hope they continue to lose. I just don't want to see them do something moronic like trade THJr.

Predictable is what happens when Tyson Chandler set a high screen or when Shump is stationed in the corner or when Melo gets the ball on the low block or when...

You get the point.

You can tell whose making the comments. Take out the new FAs, rookies and 2nd year players and who do you have left?

Earl
Shump
Melo
Amare
Prigioni
Aldrich
Bargnani




Process of elimination doesn't get any easier.

[Jeffx]

Quote: Originally Posted by ehh

3) This is a work in progress and an example of the culture that we need to change. We have selfish, stupid players all over the roster. We have so many guys that don't, or won't, defend. We have all these divas that need to be shown the door.

Not just the players, the friggin' scouting department needs an overhaul. Look at the Bucks - those cats are young, hungry and have heart. Why can't we get cats like that? Why can't we get high basketball IQ players like the Spurs? Where are the foreign players? Why do the Knicks always go for divas? This franchise has exactly one playoff series win since Dolan took over...ONE in what, fourteen years???????

Steve Kerr knew what he was doing, but hell, it wasn't THAT hard of a decision to choose between GS and NY.

[NYJets]

Like I said in the other thread I'm sure there is a level of dysfunction and infighting, there always should be if a team is 4-19, but Broussard just made a lot of that **** up, and it contradicts itself so much.

The players hate Melo and think he's too selfish, thought he got special treatment last year, and want to play more like a team.....yet they hate the triangle and want to go back to last years system.

They hate the defense....yet all last year we heard about how they hate the switching and that's why they were always confused on defense.

They don't like anything about fisher, they don't like that he wants them cutting and making smart plays, they don't like that he has too many practices....yet they think he needs to be harder on them?

There's no big behind the scenes story here, it's just an awful team full of one dimensional, low bball iq players. The few guys who consistently play hard and smart aren't talented to be playing significant minutes. The guys with talent mostly don't fit what we are trying to do, and probably at this point can't fit

Try and trade JR, see if you can get anything for Shumpert since he probably won't be back next year, keep bottoming out, and pray Phil can work some magic with the cap space and for once a top pick.

[bigeastbumrush]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jeffx

Not just the players, the friggin' scouting department needs an overhaul. Look at the Bucks - those cats are young, hungry and have heart. Why can't we get cats like that? Why can't we get high basketball IQ players like the Spurs? Where are the foreign players? Why do the Knicks always go for divas? This franchise has exactly one playoff series win since Dolan took over...ONE in what, fourteen years??????? Steve Kerr knew what he was doing, but hell, it wasn't THAT hard of a decision to choose between GS and NY.

that Papanikalou or whatever his name is seems to be doing pretty well in Houston.

I believe we traded him away to get Felton.

If they're going to stick with a 5 year plan, they need to do it 100% and just go with strictly players who fit the system.

[Hassan Darkside]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeastbumrush

that Papanikalou or whatever his name is seems to be doing pretty well in Houston. I believe we traded him away to get Felton. If they're going to stick with a 5 year plan, they need to do it 100% and just go with strictly players who fit the system.

I was wrong about Pap, I didn't think he'd ever make it to the NBA, now he's a solid rotation player in Houston that has terrific all-around skill from what I've seen. Has potential to be a solid role player on a contender.
---

Here's my thoughts through 23 games, I've watched pretty much all but one (OKC) because I love depressing dramas more than I should.

1.) Shout out to Steve Kerr. I'm glad he took the much better job with the much better players with the much smaller egos. I don't think he'd be fairing any better in NY right now. Not because of his ability to coach, but because of the roster and the expectations.

2.) Derek Fisher...Obviously a lot of growing pains here. Leadership as a coach is much different than as a player. Anybody can be positive and try to motivate their players by massaging their egos. Fish has done that but not really much more. He's still experimenting with his rotation and I think his way of sending a point to his players is to sit them if they're struggling. I have yet to see him scold a player or do anything more than give a puzzled look on the sideline whenever a guy like JR Smith forgets there's more to basketball than shooting.

3.) The Triangle: As was mentioned earlier, the triangle is supposed to be read-and-react, but for all five players. Every player has a role or assignment or spot they're supposed to go to depending on where the basketball goes. 23 games into the season our players still don't know. If any of what Broussard said is true, it's because they seem incapable of figuring out what to do once the first option is taken away. Watching Dalembert in the offense is hilarious. He's too scared to shoot the basketball and quite often when the ball hits his hands and he can't hit the cutter, he looks completely lost. A lot of times he'll have an open 10-12 footer if he turns and faces the basket, but he has no touch or confidence shooting.

Then there's Melo...We still get too focused on either trying to force-feed Melo or our offense stagnates and he decides he's going to shoot regardless. I can understand his frustration because it's almost a lose-lose for him with his play-style and teammates. It's not an offense designed for one person to create shots for others, it's an equal opportunity offense, yet only Melo, JR, THJR, and Amar'e aggressively look for their shots. And they overdo it a lot of times because nobody else does.

The other issue with Melo is we're again in the situation where we're expecting more from him than he's capable of. It's no coincidence that his best year in NY was when he was surrounded by vets like Kidd, Kurt Thomas, Sheed, etc. Guys who could bring the leadership so Melo could play Melo ball.

4.) Lost in here somewhere is the re-emergence of Amar'e Stoudemire. I give him all the props in the worl (still no D) because he looks healthy and dominant in the post offensively. He's actually been our most consistent leader and that's saying alot considering how much he had to sacrifice for Melo and his health issues. The dude basically has done everything to keep his body right.

As I write this, I'm watching the Spurs B team beat us and the offense is so bad to watch at times. It's been like this all year. The players jog and skip to their spots and just stand and watch with no sense of urgency. The spacing is terrible, anytime somebody goes into an iso nobody else moves off of the ball when they should. Sometimes there's great possessions and great execution (usually when we can hit our first option), but 70% of the time it's chaos and confusion.

Honestly I hope we keep losing. This is just going to be a long process because nobody outside of PJ has successfully run the triangle for an extended period of time in the NBA. And if this season is any testament to the learning curve of it, it's going to take a while again once we reload our roster.