Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

[Oraeon1224]

For those making sliders wondering what level is best. In prior years I have shown that the statistics of players changes according to the difficulty setting by testing speed with varsity-starting point, all-american-slower, heismann-slowest. As it is impossible to know the level the game was designed for I went by a prior designer statement that AA was the correct level. However, I can confirm that the game cheats on AA and Heismann. Here are the test to confirm and expand versus2 youtube testing:

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 192pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=256><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=4 width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d8d8d8; WIDTH: 48pt; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl66 height=19 width=64></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d8d8d8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl66 width=64>Man</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d8d8d8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl66 width=64>Cover2</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d8d8d8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl66 width=64>Cover3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d8d8d8; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl66 height=19>Varsity</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d8d8d8; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl66 height=19>AA</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>yes</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d8d8d8; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl66 height=19>Heisman</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>yes</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14.4pt" height=19><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d8d8d8; HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl66 height=19>Play action</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no cheat</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no cheat</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid" class=xl65>no cheat</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

This was run alternating each side 5 test with no change on any test. It is odd but it only cheats on cover 2 and no other formations. I wonder if this is actually some odd programming error. It does not cheat on varsity. Next I thought maybe varisty level is penalizing CPU defensive statistics.

I tested the following:
Awarness 0: No effect on anything in the game including cheating
Play recognition 0: massive effect on response to play action (buys the run) no effect on cheating
Pursuit 0: Massive effect on angles and following runner no effect on cheating or play recognition on any level

Next I checked to see if sliders could fix this:
Run defense 0, Run blocking 100: No change to cheating

Summary: The game cheats on AA and Heismann against the run resulting in too many TFL and odd running game that strangly only cheats on a single type of defensive play suggesting a programming error. Player edits and slider changes have no effect on this. I personally am going to try to change my slider set from AA to Varsity this year and see if it works out. If anyone has any other test or suggestions I would be happy to hear them.

[Playmakers]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

I've felt for the last 2-3 years that if you really put in the work the players will play closer to their ratings on Varsity level

I have a Alumni roster file for NCAA 11 and the RBA slider is at 50 yet my RB's will do things that almost make them react human like operating just of their own ratings with no increase or decrease to the CPU RBA slider

I've showed videos that show a created Tony Dorsett reversing field on some runs all because of his Ball carrier vision rating.

To me this level captures the game and player ratings better than any other level.....the only problem is EA can't rate players worth a damn IMO so defaut varsity level without sliders will kill the game especially if players have poor awareness.

I would match my created Peyton Manning on Varsity level vs any QB on default using Heisman level sliders as a boost for him....My created Peyton Manning will make the same reads and be just as deadly as the QB on heisman level all because of his ratings without any boost to his skill set via sliders

[Oraeon1224]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

I have even worse news now. I realized I hadn't tested what was happening on the CPU run defense vs human offense. I repeated the above test, I am not doing the full table because it only cheats on cover 2 for the human as well:

Varsity: Human cheats against CPU run
All american: Human cheats against CPU run
Heismann: Human doesn't cheat against CPU run

CRAP!!!

This means the following is true

Varsity: CPU doesn't cheat human, human cheats CPU
All american: CPU cheats and human cheats
Heismann: CPU cheats, human doesn't cheat

This actually confirms that all american is the default position for NCAA football and allways has been. It isn't right that the human cheats but at least it is fair that the CPU cheats also. I think we need to lobby or contact EA to remove the cover 2 AI cheating on all american at least.

Summary: Slider designers should choose who they want to have the best run defense as follows and then make sliders, but AA is actually the default.

1) Varsity: Human running is correct, CPU running is hard
2) All american: Both are harder
3) Heismann: Human running is more difficult, CPU running is correct

I am going back to all american after this discovery and trying to fix it as best I can with sliders. If I can't then I will use heismann and try to fix the pass game and human running with sliders.

[rboocahrd]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

I love seeing this type of analysis on gameplay but I have question for you. When you say the Hum or CPU cheats on run and cover 2 what do they actually do to cheat? Does this just mean they have a ratings boost or does something physical happen?

Thanks for your analysis

[Redacted01]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

I love seeing this type of analysis on gameplay but I have question for you. When you say the Hum or CPU cheats on run and cover 2 what do they actually do to cheat? Does this just mean they have a ratings boost or does something physical happen?

Thanks for your analysis

Test it for yourself. The defense already knows the play and sends a corner to stop the run.

[Oraeon1224]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

To confirm the CPU or human corner back on the side of the run always always immeidately runs to the ball carrier and is never blocked by the wide reciever. That is the cheat. It doesn't happen for the Human CB on heismann and doesn't happen for the CPU CB on varsity. Pick your poison, correct CPU run or correct human run. Unfortunately both cheat on all-american instead of neither.

This is a programming error and is clearly not the intended action. Can anyone give me an EA programmers email or way to contact them so this might make it into the next patch?

[Oraeon1224]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

Fair but not outstanding news. I determined how to fix this problem and there are two methods:

1) If you want to play on heismann send you reciever on the side of the run into motion towards the running back every time you perform an outside run he will then block. Since the CPU run game is fine on this setting they should not need anything. This will not work for AA or Varsity.

2) This is my favorite fix but you will have to fix the inside run. Decrease rush defense to 30 or lower. For some magical reason it causes a chip block on the CB that is just as effective as blocking (i.e. run defense slider effects chip blocks and run block slider effects pancakes). Here is my testing:

Run block 100: No effect
Run defense 0: 100% chip blocks on CB
Run defense 20: 100% chip blocks on CB
Run defense 30: 90% chip blocks on CB
Run defense 35: 20% chip blocks on CB
Run defense >35: <10% chip blocks on CB

I personally am going to use Run defense of 30 for now as it will have the least impact on inside runs. Now I am going to use Run blocking and RB ability sliders to decrease my ability to inside run and fix the CPU inside running game. I will be labbing this in my slider set soon.
--Rush defense slider

[lbowbb2]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

I ran your same tests and likewise found that the corner will still cheat with Run D at 0 (whether it be CPU on Heisman or USER on Varsity). It seems like blocking him will be the only option until a patch is released. Good work, Oraeon.

[miamikris]

Fair but not outstanding news. I determined how to fix this problem and there are two methods:

1) If you want to play on heismann send you reciever on the side of the run into motion towards the running back every time you perform an outside run he will then block. Since the CPU run game is fine on this setting they should not need anything. This will not work for AA or Varsity.

2) This is my favorite fix but you will have to fix the inside run. Decrease rush defense to 30 or lower. For some magical reason it causes a chip block on the CB that is just as effective as blocking (i.e. run defense slider effects chip blocks and run block slider effects pancakes). Here is my testing:

Run block 100: No effect
Run defense 0: 100% chip blocks on CB
Run defense 20: 100% chip blocks on CB
Run defense 30: 90% chip blocks on CB
Run defense 35: 20% chip blocks on CB
Run defense >35: <10% chip blocks on CB

I personally am going to use Run defense of 30 for now as it will have the least impact on inside runs. Now I am going to use Run blocking and RB ability sliders to decrease my ability to inside run and fix the CPU inside running game. I will be labbing this in my slider set soon.
--Rush defense slider

Great work bro.I will be testing this later tonight or tomorrow and adjusting my coach mode set.Thanks by the way for all the work you do.

[Playmakers]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

I ran your same tests and likewise found that the corner will still cheat with Run D at 0 (whether it be CPU on Heisman or USER on Varsity). It seems like blocking him will be the only option until a patch is released. Good work, Oraeon.

and this is where WR blocking is critical especially in the Option game for the CPU

not too many people realize how effective you can make blocking on the outside if you tweak the ratings.

EA will not adjust blocking ratings for non skill players....

It doesn't matter what they do in a patch or tuner if the WR's aren't rated to block properly or effectively

[jkra0512]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

Wow O, this is some good stuff my friend. My hat's off to you!

[Aruthless]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

and this is where WR blocking is critical especially in the Option game for the CPU

not too many people realize how effective you can make blocking on the outside if you tweak the ratings.

EA will not adjust blocking ratings for non skill players....

It doesn't matter what they do in a patch or tuner if the WR's aren't rated to block properly or effectively

So if you put tight ends out wide for option teams would this help the blocking?

[Playmakers]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

So if you put tight ends out wide for option teams would this help the blocking?

If you put a TE at WR they take a hit in awareness which is critical becuase it helps players with their surroundings in knowing who to block.

If you have WR's with already low awareness then it won't matter because the TE usually will have better run block footwork and run block strength that allows him to slow down the defender lomng enough on the outside for the runnning back to develope.

The problem is EA takes no pride in rating players at the skill position to be effective blockers or even avg blockers to be honest.

The ratings can be used to make WR's cut block, block with more force or simply just distract the CB long enough to make plays work.

[rboocahrd]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

Test it for yourself. The defense already knows the play and sends a corner to stop the run.

That's exactly what I wanted to know. Is that the only cheat or is there something else on run plays?

[dlions20]

Re: Big news for slider makers_versus2 confirmation

yea im sorry but this game is crap...there is no slider set that fits and now that you know it cheats? cmon mann lol i just had a game buffalo vs pitt to start off a season, it was raining and you could see their breath like it was cold are you kidding me?? im losing faith guys