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Old 11-15-2019, 04:56 AM   #1
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A different approach to sliders...

Updated 2/2/2020 Penalties and autosubs revamped, also dropped punt accuracy to 75. Better breakdown on the 6th page near the top, just gonna update the numbers.

Im not attempting to add difficulty, nor make it easier, just more natural/accurate. My goal is to balance an unbalanced game, seeking realism over anything else. I want to power up the weak areas and nerf the overpowered. My sliders allow for any outcome based on talent(players), play calls, coaching, location, weather. I dont want to feel like I or the computer have an advantage, that the game is cheating either of us. I dont always want close games against vastly weaker opposition because the sliders arent equal, but I do wanna get my *** kicked by better teams when I deserve it. I want it to "work right", to give the best simulation possible.


Offensive Skill Heisman
Defensive Skill Heisman
User vs User Heisman
Injuries ON
Fatigue ON
Quarter Length 8(pass heavy)-10(run heavy) Minutes(9 for balanced)
Play Clock ON
Game Speed NORMAL
Threshold 0
HFA - ON

AI(both sides)
25 Pass Acc
50 Pass Block
25 WR Catch
75 Run ability
75 Run Block
25 Pass Coverage
75 Interceptions
75 Rush Defense
50 Tackle
75 FG Power
25 FG Acc
Punt Power 50
Punt Acc 75
KO Power 50


Penalties

Penalties

Offside 65
False Start 35
Holding 85
Facemask 60
Offensive PI 70
Defensive PI 30
KR I 45
Clipping 55
Intentional Grounding 75
RTP 50
RTK 40

Auto Subs
QB 50 60
HB 70 80
WR 75 65
TE 70 60
OL 55 65

DT 70 80
DE 65 75
LB 60 70
DB 55 65
S 50 60

Because the game came with 50/50 sliders, I decided not to break the game in any way that favors the user over the cpu OR vice versa. Equal sliders means neither side can cheat, its an even playing field. Any reduction is counter-balanced with an EQUAL improvement. I wanted people to see my sliders and say "that looks official, it makes sense." A major problem with this game(and almost every football game) is the pass game is too strong while the run game is inconsistent if not ineffective for both the user and cpu. Because of this, my first objective was to balance out the offense. After that, I adjusted the defense to compensate.

In order to balance the pass game out, I cut accuracy and catching in half. This stops the qbs from being laser-accurate, especially on the move. It stops average receiving options from catching everything or running perfect routes. Pass blocking stays at 50 to keep that based on the players ratings.

To offset those changes to the pass, we boosted rb ability and run blocking. This improves the run game by opening better lanes and improving skill positions at finding people to block. It makes the ball carrier more responsive to his surroundings/user input. This turns impact runners, especially dual threat quarterbacks, into much bigger issues. Power runners shine breaking tackles, agile runners are more shifty with their movement, not just moves.

On defense, we drop pass coverage to 25 to match the QB Accuracy and wr catching. To balance that reduction, we boost Interceptions to 75, which cuts out most of the dropped "GIMMIES" that happen way too much in this game. To put it short, the defense wont always be in perfect position, but when it is, you better not throw it or you'll pay. Rush Defense we put at 75 so it matches with Run blocking, allowing impact lineman to shine. Tackle we're gonna match to pass blocking at 50, because its a skill everyone has to use and should be based on ratings alone. This all allows for more contact in the backfield to balance out the broken tackles between rb ability and tackle(edit, thanks Nunyerbiz).

For the Kicking, 75 fg power because it speeds the ball up in the air adding difficulty to shorter sideways kicks while boosting distance some allowing more long(40+ yd) fg attempts. We balance this with 25 fg accuracy making it more possible to miss easy fgs and giving a harsher penalty for bad flicks by the user. Punt power is fine at 50 but punt accuracy is atrocious. 75 allows for better accuracy without being so "perfect" at 100. Its not worth it because the coffin corners dont happen often at 100 anyways.


Ive watched the cpu v cpu in all kinds of matchups. im playing a dynasty a cupcake team just starting the 2nd season. Doesnt matter how you enjoy the game, you will get a more realistic and organic representation of the game. Please try them out and let me know what you think. Give them a couple games to prove themselves, use different teams and types of matchups. You'll see soon enough that anything can happen, but theres always a good reason for it.

Last edited by fairbanks freeze; 02-02-2020 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:25 PM   #2
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Re: A different approach to sliders...

do you use any particular autosubs to optimize the gameplay?
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:09 PM   #3
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Re: A different approach to sliders...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jww
do you use any particular autosubs to optimize the gameplay?
Personal opinion on auto subs is use 20 between each. So for me personally, I believe it should be like this.

Qb 45 out 65 in
Rb 60 out 80 in
wr 55 out 75 in
TE/FB 50 out 70 in
OL 40 out 60 in

I feel as though when you go over 80 your players dont come back in enough at the end of the game. I also run aggressive Clock adjustment on offense unless its late and I need to run the clock. This allows players to sub in more frequently. I have ol at 40 and 60 because they never sub in real life unless injured. You could switch it with the qb if you dont have a backup you ever want to see the field, but option teams bring in a backup here and there at qb.

Defense is the same principle, the game came with a 20 point difference for a reason, thats how the game was made to be played. you could also use random numbers instead of multples of 5, I like everything to look clean/official.

60 80 dt
55 75 de
50 70 lb
45 65 cb
40 60 S

If you're willing to see big names be out on big plays, or you're a powerhouse with incredible depth, you can go higher than 80 for sub in but I wouldnt advise it. You can go lower than 40 out if you really just never want to see a position sub. I feel as though this does a good job though. If there's someone you specifically want to get touches that dont seem to be getting them, use formation subs to make them the starter in some.

Last edited by fairbanks freeze; 11-17-2019 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:00 PM   #4
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Re: A different approach to sliders...

Thanks. Have really enjoyed playing with these over the weekend. Saw a lot of interesting things in each game - a lot of diversity in outcomes, animations, pretty much everything making football sense...plan to use them in my dyansty. Had a surprising amount of roughing the passer penalties...close to 10 in each game that i played. Found that if you moved the slider down to 54, it was never called, but at 55 (in the games that i played at least), it was called anytime the qb was touched after he got the pass off.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:02 PM   #5
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Re: A different approach to sliders...

You're not wrong about roughing the passer. Its literally that finicky. I find it happens less when you have your coverage at aggressive and your qb contain at conservative(cover wrs). This makes it so the qb has to scramble more often, helps with your coverage making the pass come out later. However, if you're gonna blitz, you better get there or you better have cover(deep safety/ies), they can kill you over the top.

You are more than welcome to put anything you dont like on fouls to 50 and they'll never happen. I have learned to play around roughing the passer so even with my lesser school, its not happening as much. But RTP Clipping, Facemask all can get out of hand some games. Theres no shame in turning them "off" at 50(clipping still gets called by very rarely).

Last edited by fairbanks freeze; 11-18-2019 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 11-22-2019, 10:23 AM   #6
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Re: A different approach to sliders...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairbanks freeze
Im not attempting to add difficulty, nor to make it any easier, just more natural/accurate. My goal is to balance an unbalanced game, seeking realism over anything else. I want to power up the weak areas and nerf the overpowered.

My sliders allow for any outcome based on talent(players), play calls, coaching, location, weather. I dont want to feel like I or the computer have an advantage, that the game is cheating either of us. I dont always want close games against vastly weaker opposition because the sliders arent equal, but I do wanna get my *** kicked by better teams when I deserve it. I want it to "work right", to give the best simulation possible.


Offensive Skill Heisman
Defensive Skill Heisman
User vs User Heisman
Injuries ON
Fatigue ON
Quarter Length 8(pass heavy)-10(run heavy) Minutes(9 for balanced)
Play Clock ON
Game Speed NORMAL
Threshold 0
HFA - ON

Penalties
Offsides - 100
False Start - 75
Holding - 100
Facemask - 55
OPI - 100
DPI - 100
KRI - 100
Clipping - 55
Int Grounding - 100
RTP - 55
RTK - 100

AI(both sets)

QBA 25
PB 25
WRC 50
RBA 75
RBL 75
PC 25
Int 75
Rush D 50
Tackling 75
FGP 75
FGA 25
Punt P 50
Punt Acc 100
KP 50


Autosubs(added 11/18/19)

Qb 45 65
RB 60 80
WR 55 75
TE 50 70
OL 40 60

60 80 dt
55 75 de
50 70 lb
45 65 cb
40 60 S

Because the game came with 50/50 sliders, I decided I wouldnt break the game in any way that favors the user over the cpu OR the cpu over the user. Equal sliders means neither side can cheat, its an even playing field. Any reduction is counter-balanced with an EQUAL improvement and vice versa. I wanted people to see my sliders and say "that looks official, it makes sense."

A major problem with this game(and almost every football game) is the pass game is too strong while the run game is inconsistent if not ineffective for both the user and cpu. Because of this, my first objective was to balance out the offense. After that, I adjusted the defense to compensate.

In order to balance the pass game out, I cut accuracy and pass block in half. This stops the qbs from being laser accurate in 2 ways, both when standing in a clean pocket(qb acc) and on the move(pass block). This gives the qb less time and makes them move more affecting their accuracy. WR stays at 50 though because drops occur naturally and will only get overblown lowering it.

To offset those changes to the pass, we boosted rb ability and run blocking. This improves the run game by opening better lanes and improving skill positions at finding people to block. It makes the rb more responsive to his surroundings/user input. This turns impact runners, especially dual threat quarterbacks, into much bigger issues. Power runners shine breaking tackles, agile runners are more shifty with their movement, not just moves.

On defense, we drop pass coverage to 25 to match the QB Accuracy. To balance that reduction, we boost Interceptions to 75, which cuts out most of the dropped "GIMMIE". To put it short, the defense wont always be in perfect position, but when it is, you better not throw it or you'll pay. Rush Defense we keep at 50 because it affects LINE PLAY, so it matches with Run blocking and Pass Blocking. We dont need to raise it or drop it because we balanced out their interactions on the offense. Tackle at 75 because we dont want scrubs running over impact players so it matches 75 run ability. This also makes tackling more aggressive/forceful. A weak rb/qb/wr better not run into a hard hitter without covering up...

For the Kicking, 75 fg power because it speeds the ball up in the air adding difficulty to shorter sideways kicks while boosting distance some allowing more long(40+ yd) fg attempts. We balance this with 25 fg accuracy making it more possible to miss easy fgs and giving a harsher penalty for bad flicks by the user. Punt power is fine at 50 but punt accuracy is atrocious. Even at 75, you rarely see a coffin corner or punt inside the 20. At 100, the best punters can change field position in one kick.


The penalties at 55 shouldnt go higher or they take over the game. The ones at 100 never/rarely get called. False start rarely gets called but you dont want offside to NEVER be called so it needs to be lower than offside. Besides, over 75, you cant fake hike often at all. At 75, you can use it if you dont abuse it. But know the scenario, dont use it if you cant lose the yards.

Ive watched the cpu v cpu in all kinds of matchups. im playing a dynasty a cupcake team just starting the 2nd season. Doesnt matter how you enjoy the game, you will get a more realistic and organic representation of the game. Please try them out and let me know what you think. Give them a couple games to prove themselves, use different teams and types of matchups. You'll see soon enough that anything can happen, but theres always a good reason for it.
Got VERY frustrated w/ my sliders last night. I tried something...so bear w/ me I was playing with a set that i can't remember their origin. I (Nebraska) played against a ranked Minnesota (94 ovr-93 off-92 def) and quit early. The first two plays while i was on defense, were 60+ yard runs for touchdowns w/ uncountable broken tackles, got sacked my 2nd play threw a pick on my 3rd play by a guy covering my WR from the opposite side of the field...on an out route...it hit my receivers hands bounced up in the air and intercepted by the guy trailing by 5 yards. The next play was a 20+ yard run. stopped them on the next two plays, and tackled a screen play for a loss on 3rd down and got a facemask penalty, gave up 2 more 3rd downs on that drive...and through the 1st quarter was down 21-0, 2 turnovers, 3 penalties and they were 4 of 6 on 3rd down. That was enough...i started over...different script of course, but the same kind of game...just felt like i got cheated...and my backs and receivers just get crushed on every tackle...sick of that. I simmed the game and took the loss. I don't mind losing, actually prefer it...if its done the right way...not when i'm being cheated.

I decided to try these sliders for the next game against a top 10 Michigan team (97-96-97). I was down 13-0 at halftime, being dominated in yardage, but gave up a big run, w/ 1 broken tackle. When i had the ball, ripped off one of my own big runs w/ a broken tackle, 100% more than the entire previous season...got things going offensively and still lost the game 28-34. they were just a better team. We each threw an interception on bad decisons...no penalties or wide open receivers on 3rd down...it was a really refreshing experience. I'm really looking forward to playing tonight (Friday) and see how these games go.

PS: I use a version of Hellisan's manual offseason improvement system, so my guys aren't all 99's and i give 5 pt boosts to all top 10 team's incoming freshman, so the blue bloods stay the blue bloods and i'm usually outmatched or the lower rated team. It was so fun to play a game that i felt like i was still in the game...I could stop them when needed, they were stopping me...but it wasn't like playing against a godly Old Dominion team that i snuck out a win on.

In short, thanks for spending the time to put this set together. Through 1 game...its the best set i've seen so far. I'll post updates tonight as i get through more games.

I didn't try the penalty sliders and auto-subs as i just wanted to try the sliders...but will put the rest in (threshhold, penalties, etc for the rest of the season). Also have never really messed w/ threshhold...i understand how its done, but curious how much of a difference it really makes, looking forward to testing.

Last edited by AKEjcl41; 11-22-2019 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 11-22-2019, 02:14 PM   #7
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Re: A different approach to sliders...

Mainly interested in cpu vs cpu for these, if you've done that, do you personally do coach mode, or auto QB?
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Old 11-22-2019, 05:42 PM   #8
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Re: A different approach to sliders...

I am about to play a game in my dynasty with these sliders, because I find them intriguing and I'm not sure if I've ever kept the individual user/cpu sliders identical across the board except for straight 50/50 vanilla. That said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairbanks freeze
Because the game came with 50/50 sliders, I decided I wouldnt break the game in any way that favors the user over the cpu OR the cpu over the user. Equal sliders means neither side can cheat, its an even playing field. Any reduction is counter-balanced with an EQUAL improvement and vice versa. I wanted people to see my sliders and say "that looks official, it makes sense."
The various difficulty levels of All-American, Heisman, etc. already imply that the playing field is inherently uneven. If both sides were "equal" and all you had to do was tweak the sliders, then difficulty levels wouldn't be needed at all. When you move to Heisman, a boost to CPU ability is already in effect before any sliders are touched. The CPU is already 'cheating' because that's essentially what we've asked for. In a 50/50 vanilla slider set, an 80 MCV cornerback on a Heisman level CPU team will play better coverage than an identically rated cornerback on a HUM team. Not that this is necessarily a problem, the CPU likely needs to 'cheat' a little bit against anybody who has decent stick skills and can read a defense... But using Heisman as the base difficulty is already slanting things in favor of the CPU... so just something I wanted to throw out there in case I decide to tweak these later and break away from the symmetry. (I believe the old wives tale around here is that All-American is the "level playing field" where players for both HUM and CPU play straight to their ratings, but not sure if that was ever officially confirmed by a dev.)

All that said, I am looking forward to playing... as I like most of what I'm seeing behind your individual choices. I do think HUM rushing might be a bit overpowered, but maybe not, as that 75 tackling should offer better shed and pursuit angles... anyways, I'm babbling now, off to the PS3 to play the game... I'll reply back with my impressions after the game.
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