Recruiting...

[NoleFan]

Why do some folks prefer the phone call recruiting of games like 09-12, maybe 13 too?

[canes21]

Re: Recruiting...

Because 14 is way too streamlined and doesn't feel engaging at all. The phone call method was far from perfect, but at least I felt like I was doing something. With the recruiting in 14, you just set your points up and are more or less good to go the entirety of the season.

I get some people didn't want to spend so much time in the menus between games and I get that. Myself, I honestly love when games make one experience the grind between the big moments, so I'd have loved it if recruiting had been fleshed out even more, made more ambiguous, something similar to what they(EA) did in their basketball games, what 2k did in College Hoops, or what is presently done in the Draft Day Sports college games.

With the phone call method, I at least went in and did work every single week of the season, remembered recruits names, was hurt when a guy went elsewhere, would follow their careers, etc. In 14, I set my points up, would casually check if any adjustments needed to be made, spent maybe 2 minutes total doing anything recruiting, and I wouldn't even remember the names of my own commitments let alone the guys that I lost.

[NoleFan]

Re: Recruiting...

Respect. It's funny, you'd think that I'd be ok with the more time consuming phone call method considering that I sim my games but, I'm not. I like the way 14 does it. Reminds me of 06 which I still also play.

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[canes21]

Re: Recruiting...

Yea, it seems like people either want a really deep experience in the menus, or they don't. Hardly seems like there is ever anyone that wants something in the middle.

For me, personally, I'd love it if recruiting, practice, game prep, etc. all took as long as playing each game took. I want to experience the grind of each aspect of a season, and then have the games feel like big moments where wins are truly rewarding and losses are true heartbreaks.

I'd love to go in and have a budget where I'd have to choose who to visit/scout each week, decide who gets the most attention from the coaching staff, and so on, but EA typically likes to streamline their games, so I'd imagine the new game will be more like NCAA 14 than not. I personally hope not and wish for a very deep recruiting experience that can be automated for those who don't like to spend much time in the menus, but that's not been EA's style for awhile now.

[WarSeagull]

Re: Recruiting...

Yeah I expect the new game to be much closer to NCAA Football 14 style recruiting just based on how they've revamped other games since then (like recently in Madden with scouting).

I personally prefer the older style more in-depth experience but I just don't see that happening.

[NoleFan]

Re: Recruiting...

I like 10 where you can offer a schollie with a quick call. In that one, I quick call all the things until it's time to schedule a visit...UNLESS I've delegated visit scheduling. I'm different though...a lot of guys want to micromanage all the things. In my universe, I've got staff for that

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[rjsuperfly66]

Re: Recruiting...

I put this in another thread, but recruiting to me is often too simplistic and leads to the lack of realism in dynasty.

The flaw is that power schools do not feel like power schools. 25 points from Alabama should equal approximately 600 points from Eastern Michigan. Alabama should be able to cast a wider net on players because a simple phone call would be worth sending my assistant to visit a player 20 times because of who they are, how they compete, etc.

That aside, I HATE seeing my ranking on the list, because really if I'm trying to maximize my competitiveness, how would I recruit? I used to sort the recruiting list by my position, and subsequently target the guys I was leading on and working down, and throughout the season, would adjust based on the difference in my lead. And if I noticed a team pulling away, pull the points and reallocate.

I'm ok with a system that tells you that you are on a list - "Top 5" "Top 8" "Top 12". Different stages of recruiting should have different lists. But having great recruiting attributes should determine your competitiveness from there. If I put a ton of effort into a player, my recruiting ability may say the next week "We are in this" "We think we are leading" "We are out of this" etc. A great recruiter is likely right. A bad recruiter is inconsistent. You may think you are in on a guy and then get cut from the list.

But ultimately, there needs to be a difference between power programs and low majors. Doesn't matter how great a coach is, consistently pulling 4-5 stars to MAC schools is unlikely. There needs to feel like there is incentive to advance in the carousel. And that incentive is getting better players to build a program that is a NC contender.

[NoleFan]

Re: Recruiting...

I think that's why I like the recruiting in the PS2 era games. The amount of points you had each off-season were contingent on your wins and losses. If you had a bad team/season, you didn't have a ton of points to use. I've had times with some failed replacement (swap out and FCS team with FIU in the FBS) dynasties where I'd go 0-11 or 1-10 and end up with 48 recruiting points. That adds to the challenge in a major way.

[KSUowls]

Re: Recruiting...

Definitely not a fan of how in NCAA 14 you pretty much forget about recruiting after week 1 except for minor adjustments. The complete hands off approach after you initially set up your board just made recruiting very lazy. However, it was also kind of hard to really analyze that streamlined approach though because the system was broken. Since the AI maxed out their budget on any target then it left no nuance to how you approach different guys with your 5000+ point budget.

I didn't love the phone call system either though. It was always super frustrating when you would get those instances of seeing the minutes tick down on a long call. You could lose 10-15% of your weekly budget on a single pitch, and I wouldn't exactly call that system overly in depth either.

My ideal system would take some cues from NCAA CBB 2K8 where your coaches have charisma and scouting attributes (coinciding with a robust coaching system/staff) with program prestige playing a huge factor in your ability to recruit guys. From there just make pitches based on academics, prestige, playing time, etc. I would love a system that requires me to not just set and forget it, but it also needs to be fun (ie: calling recruits in some older versions felt like a chore rather than a gameplay feature).

[goillini03]

Re: Recruiting...

I agree. Recruiting in ncaa 14 is why I will never consider it to be the best game in the series. Just an awful setup.

[NoleFan]

Re: Recruiting...

Definitely not a fan of how in NCAA 14 you pretty much forget about recruiting after week 1 except for minor adjustments. The complete hands off approach after you initially set up your board just made recruiting very lazy. However, it was also kind of hard to really analyze that streamlined approach though because the system was broken. Since the AI maxed out their budget on any target then it left no nuance to how you approach different guys with your 5000+ point budget.

I didn't love the phone call system either though. It was always super frustrating when you would get those instances of seeing the minutes tick down on a long call. You could lose 10-15% of your weekly budget on a single pitch, and I wouldn't exactly call that system overly in depth either.

My ideal system would take some cues from NCAA CBB 2K8 where your coaches have charisma and scouting attributes (coinciding with a robust coaching system/staff) with program prestige playing a huge factor in your ability to recruit guys. From there just make pitches based on academics, prestige, playing time, etc. I would love a system that requires me to not just set and forget it, but it also needs to be fun (ie: calling recruits in some older versions felt like a chore rather than a gameplay feature).

How I handle the bolded part is that I always redistribute my points each week after I sort my list by "largest deficit". Kinda simulates having to focus on different kids each week based on how hard they're being recruited by other teams.

[canes21]

Re: Recruiting...

The streamlined system in 14 was moving in the exact opposite way I wanted to see things go. For console sports games, I think College Hoops 2k8 had the best recruiting system, but EA's recruiting in their basketball games was not too different. It was significantly better than anything they put into their football games.

I don't want something super streamlined that I set and forget like 14, but I don't want a return to the old phone call system either. I'd like to see a mishmash of what Choops 2k8 and NCAA Basketball 11 did with sending care packages, emails, phone calls, assistant coach visits, and so on.

Things I definitely feel like a modern recruiting system needs are:

1) Decommits and flips.
2) Underclassmen
3) More ambiguity
4) More flair around signing days

Decommits and flips happen regularly. This needs to be represented in the new game. Getting a verbal in September shouldn't mean that you are just done recruiting that kid forever. Some kids will be locked in, but not all, and some should require your attention all the way to early signing day.

And with ambiguity, I don't just mean less certainty around a player's ratings after you scout them. I am talking about where I stand with that recruit. I absolutely hate seeing seeing that I am exactly 150 points behind the leading school. I want recruits to give me statements of varying detail. One kid may be all in on my school and say I am his dream school and is shutting it down. Another kid may say I am definitely top 5 and that's it. I have no clue if I am #1 or #5. To make this more fun, I'd love to see some sort of media prediction that can give you an idea of where you stand with a kid, but it also is not 100% set in stone.

For example, that kid that said I was definitely top 5, maybe the EA Recruiting site in the game says he is 80% predicted to choose me, 15% to choose Texas, and 5% to choose another school. With that info, I'd think I am likely #1 and should continue to pursue the kid. On the flip side, if I was one of the 2 schools in the top 5 with no odds to land the kid, I have to make a decision on whether I drop him or continue to recruit him in hopes that the odds are wrong.

[KSUowls]

Re: Recruiting...

Agree with all points, especially early recruiting. It would be nice to see how good future classes are (with fog of war built in of course). Maybe I want to over recruit a position that is strong this year because it's really weak the next year.

Fog of war, variability, and just having having more things to consider is the direction that I would love to see it go.

Recruiting should be a year long process. I understand that it probably won't get to the point where you're in contact with dozens of players each recruiting season like a real coach as the process still needs to be gamified, but I think that there are a lot of ways that you can make it interesting while still accessible. Plus there is always the option to just add in AI helpers that will manage things for you for anyone who doesn't want to be as involved.

[NoleFan]

Re: Recruiting...

Ok now I can get behind some of that stuff

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[rjsuperfly66]

Re: Recruiting...

The streamlined system in 14 was moving in the exact opposite way I wanted to see things go. For console sports games, I think College Hoops 2k8 had the best recruiting system, but EA's recruiting in their basketball games was not too different. It was significantly better than anything they put into their football games.

I don't want something super streamlined that I set and forget like 14, but I don't want a return to the old phone call system either. I'd like to see a mishmash of what Choops 2k8 and NCAA Basketball 11 did with sending care packages, emails, phone calls, assistant coach visits, and so on.

Things I definitely feel like a modern recruiting system needs are:

1) Decommits and flips.
2) Underclassmen
3) More ambiguity
4) More flair around signing days

Decommits and flips happen regularly. This needs to be represented in the new game. Getting a verbal in September shouldn't mean that you are just done recruiting that kid forever. Some kids will be locked in, but not all, and some should require your attention all the way to early signing day.

And with ambiguity, I don't just mean less certainty around a player's ratings after you scout them. I am talking about where I stand with that recruit. I absolutely hate seeing seeing that I am exactly 150 points behind the leading school. I want recruits to give me statements of varying detail. One kid may be all in on my school and say I am his dream school and is shutting it down. Another kid may say I am definitely top 5 and that's it. I have no clue if I am #1 or #5. To make this more fun, I'd love to see some sort of media prediction that can give you an idea of where you stand with a kid, but it also is not 100% set in stone.

For example, that kid that said I was definitely top 5, maybe the EA Recruiting site in the game says he is 80% predicted to choose me, 15% to choose Texas, and 5% to choose another school. With that info, I'd think I am likely #1 and should continue to pursue the kid. On the flip side, if I was one of the 2 schools in the top 5 with no odds to land the kid, I have to make a decision on whether I drop him or continue to recruit him in hopes that the odds are wrong.

I agree with this so much and I think it touches on something I think is important... All recruiting points should not be created equal, or whatever your recruiting system is based off of. One phone call from Alabama should be equal to about 20 calls from Kent St. But I think that's where player attributes can make it fun, the older school method. A kid who cares about PT during recruiting won't be as wowed by that phone call by Bama. A kid who wants to play for a NC, they'll go nuts over it. To me, it's so important to mail this to bring in the realism of college football. As fun as it is to make some small MAC school a national champion, it's not realistic. Maybe over 15-20 years, building a great infrastructure and program pedigree, but so unlikely. Players should feel the desire to move up the coaching ladder. Why do real coaches move? It's about opportunity to be the best, and naturally it's easier at bigger programs with more resources. Need to feel that difference.