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The verdict?

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Old 07-11-2005, 12:35 PM   #25
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Re: The verdict?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Abner
Correct, but this is what makes the other routes tougher to defend. In the context of the game, this is problem is compounded because the CB is always there to make the play. It would be one thing if the WR tried to deceive the CB in some fashion when running a fly pattern. I think that would be kinda cool, actually.

In real football fly patterns work, usually, when there is busted coverage and he's left open, or a move is made to fool the CB into thinking it's not a streak but rather a shorter pass, of course this takes more time and will result in a sack or a QB flush. If the CB runs with the WR and the WR isn't open then it's a very, very, low percentage play unless you're throwing to Randy Moss and you're CB is 5'10. Catches are obviously made in traffic all the time, but not as much as you see in the game.

You are just not going to convince me that a 50 yard fly pattern in man coverage is a 50% completion play in college football. There are way too many factors that are not being added to the equation. As was discussed earlier, the primary one being QB accuracy. Most college QBs throw a 50 yard bomb with poor accuracy which makes completing it pretty damn tough. In the videogame, it's usually on the money and ends up being a jump ball that is either caught, dropped, or swatted away by a leaping CB.

Anyway, we can debate this til we're blue but the fact is that if I want to throw for 500 yards a game by going 5 wide and mixing runs and a few short passes with my fly patterns I can do it. It should not be that easy, and unless I put limits on the amount of times to run a streak then it's bombs away. Of course it's not fun to abuse the AI so I do limit my 50 yard passes because it's not realistic playcalling. But if I wanted to cheese my way to seeing Ted Ginn average 40 yards per catch and Troy Smith throwing for 500 a game, it's definitely possible, which says to me something is amiss in either the ease of throwing a deep pass of the CPU's ability to stop it.
Actually, I think a lot of times the WR will hold a little back then turn it on when the ball is in the air. Holding a little back makes it easier to separate to make the catch and also come back on an underthrown ball...so I dont think it is merely a foot race as you suggest. Also, this discussion has progressed from the "deep ball" to fly routes exclusively. A deep post is and should be completed a higher percentage of the time...and I think this is reflected in the game...do you think the deep post accounts for the 40-50% you mentioned? That % did apply to the "deep ball" in general correct?
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Old 07-11-2005, 12:38 PM   #26
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Re: The verdict?

My only real problem with the game is that the computer really never blows any assignments. In real football sometimes the defense just gets mixed up and people miss their assignments. In this game, whatever defense you or the computer calls, the players will react accordingly.
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Old 07-11-2005, 12:39 PM   #27
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Re: The verdict?

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My only real problem with the game is that the computer really never blows any assignments. In real football sometimes the defense just gets mixed up and people miss their assignments. In this game, whatever defense you or the computer calls, the players will react accordingly.
That would be cool but I would worry that there would be a slippery slope with this...Id rather it not happen than happen too often.
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Old 07-11-2005, 12:41 PM   #28
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Re: The verdict?

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Originally Posted by Bill_Abner
You are just not going to convince me that a 50 yard fly pattern in man coverage is a 50% completion play in college football. There are way too many factors that are not being added to the equation. As was discussed earlier, the primary one being QB accuracy. Most college QBs throw a 50 yard bomb with poor accuracy which makes completing it pretty damn tough. In the videogame, it's usually on the money and ends up being a jump ball that is either caught, dropped, or swatted away by a leaping CB.

Anyway, we can debate this til we're blue but the fact is that if I want to throw for 500 yards a game by going 5 wide and mixing runs and a few short passes with my fly patterns I can do it. It should not be that easy, and unless I put limits on the amount of times to run a streak then it's bombs away. Of course it's not fun to abuse the AI so I do limit my 50 yard passes because it's not realistic playcalling. But if I wanted to cheese my way to seeing Ted Ginn average 40 yards per catch and Troy Smith throwing for 500 a game, it's definitely possible, which says to me something is amiss in either the ease of throwing a deep pass of the CPU's ability to stop it.
Not many DBs can run with WRs (which is why they play defense), so yes I do believe that with your skeleton drill and mixing up the routes the fly route would be completed well over 50% of the time. DBs are typically slower than WRs and they are always hedging that the WR is not running a deep route to keep from turning and running only to have the receiver break off the route. I don't know if you've ever played DB, but when someone is coming at you full speed you have about a one second window to decide to turn and run to defend the fly. The receiver already has a full head of steam while you're in a soft back pedal. If the receiver is faster than you, or if you hesitate for a second, there's a 5 yard gap between you and the receiver that will never be made up. Hence, they came up with Cover 2's to give DBs some help over the top.

I don't know. I guess I'm just not good enough yet, because there's no way that I could throw for 500 yard/gm with Ginn, Bush and Calvin Johnson on the same team. I keep misreading the defense and getting picked by the safety. I've also seen the DB outrun my WR to overthrown balls on fly routes and make the pick more than a few times.

Last edited by t_diddy; 07-11-2005 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 07-11-2005, 12:42 PM   #29
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Re: The verdict?

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Originally Posted by glucklich
That would be cool but I would worry that there would be a slippery slope with this...Id rather it not happen than happen too often.
I wouldn't want to happen alot either, I just think it would make the game a little more realistic.
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Old 07-11-2005, 12:48 PM   #30
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Re: The verdict?

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Originally Posted by t_diddy
I think if you have the right personnel (accurate strong armed QB, speedy receivers and good pass blocking) you can and teams do make a living flooding zones and running after the catch. FSU years back, Miami, USC, etc., etc., etc.. Obviously, you can't go deep every time because teams adjust and start blitzing so you don't have time to throw deep. Then offenses counter by running draws and screens. It's a game of strategies. You can't get away with just throwing deep every down because of blitzes, different coverages, offensive line missed assignments, etc.. Now obviously every team does not have a Matt Leinart, so maybe that's the difference between real football and NCAA 2006. But I doubt in NCAA you could take Baylor's QB and throw the ball up all day successfully. I guess I agree with you guys about the QB accuracy, however, the receivers do adjust to short balls, inaccurate balls, etc., especially, if you take control of the receiver. I guess I'm just saying it's not as bad as you guys are making it sound. 6 or 7 of 20 versus 10 of 20 depending on the user and who you're playing with.
Bill didn't you say you were completing about 40% against the man coverages. That isn't too bad really.
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