Interesting stuff from Moostache Re: Ian's thoughts on Defensive balance

[Brandwin]

So are they saying there is "cheats" to help a team like A&M defeat me when I am Baylor? Do they get ratings boost under the hood and make runs and throws they shouldn't? Pick off passes that shouldn't be picked off? What are they saying?

I am not changing the ratings, to me it's a waste of time. After 1 year it doesn't really matter anyway. Just not my thing. I'll just play with the cards that I am dealt (67 overall team, worse rated BCS team in the game)

Quote: Originally Posted by callmetaternuts

Wow, Moos' impressions sound alot more cryptic than anyone elses. Is he usually spot on? Too hard on EA? Makes it sound like the defense in this game just blows. I want to be able to run with a good defensive team and see results. I dont want a USC/AUburn/FSU defense to give up 30+ every week. Are the issues he is referring to pash rush, zones being too deep and high CPU QB completion %?

I would just say he's being 100% truthful.

Cliff noted problems and ways to combat them:

QB's too accurate
- They said lowering Pass Accuracy did the trick

RB's have huge advantage over LB's in passing game in man coverage
- If you manually control an LB, which I might start doing, you need to choose the LB who is on a RB. You need to make sure you stay close with him on passing routes because if you let the CPU try and hang with him he'll more than likely get burned.

I would also think you could give up a little in the way of switching the OLB's to flat zones so they will cover the swing passes. Obviously if the RB's go up field you'll need to watch for them with a safety. Also if the OLB's have the responsibility of covering the TE then you need to look out for them.

Basically you need time to make adjustments, which is exactly why it sucks that the CPU quick snaps.

The deep posts are money against zone defense
-In zone you need to know you have to protect against this. The swing passes will be guarded better so you have to trust your guys underneath. Taking control of the safety and patrolling deep will do the job IMO.

I remember this problem on old gen Madden games. Deep corner routes were money all the time and I played against a friend who would exploit the games flaws all day. Once again, when I played him, I made several coverage changes before the snap. Hopefully we have just enough time to make all the changes we need. If not we need to learn how to quickly get them in.

Overall:
The game still sounds like a lot of fun to me. Honestly none of these problems listed sound like game killers. Just think of it as an adjustment period to understand how to combat the flaws.

I think we need to just relax. Once we get the game and understand how to combat everything it will be a great game IMO.

[auburntigersfan]

there are problems with every ncaa game, but we will always play them anyway.

[Moostache]

Quote: Originally Posted by stewaat

I would just say he's being 100% truthful. Cliff noted problems and ways to combat them: QB's too accurate - They said lowering Pass Accuracy did the trick RB's have huge advantage over LB's in passing game in man coverage - If you manually control an LB, which I might start doing, you need to choose the LB who is on a RB. You need to make sure you stay close with him on passing routes because if you let the CPU try and hang with him he'll more than likely get burned. I would also think you could give up a little in the way of switching the OLB's to flat zones so they will cover the swing passes. Obviously if the RB's go up field you'll need to watch for them with a safety. Also if the OLB's have the responsibility of covering the TE then you need to look out for them. Basically you need time to make adjustments, which is exactly why it sucks that the CPU quick snaps. The deep posts are money against zone defense -In zone you need to know you have to protect against this. The swing passes will be guarded better so you have to trust your guys underneath. Taking control of the safety and patrolling deep will do the job IMO. I remember this problem on old gen Madden games. Deep corner routes were money all the time and I played against a friend who would exploit the games flaws all day. Once again, when I played him, I made several coverage changes before the snap. Hopefully we have just enough time to make all the changes we need. If not we need to learn how to quickly get them in. Overall: The game still sounds like a lot of fun to me. Honestly none of these problems listed sound like game killers. Just think of it as an adjustment period to understand how to combat the flaws. I think we need to just relax. Once we get the game and understand how to combat everything it will be a great game IMO.

That is a GREAT response!

I won't bother trying to repeat everything he said, but its pretty spot on. The CPU won't play defense the way many Human user would want and there is a definite double edged sword to doing it manually - on the one hand, you better KNOW what you're doing because bad decisions will be difficult if not impossible to always overcome with superior stick (though it CAN be done) and on the other hand, you better be able to UNDERSTAND the gaps in your defenses.

Put another way, if you have been a horrible manual defender in the past, I would not recommend that you try using a lowly rated defensive team unless you are playing a complete noob for fun. Defensive stick skills AND good, sound strategies will be essential to have any chance on defense in 2009...

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

That is a GREAT response! I won't bother trying to repeat everything he said, but its pretty spot on. The CPU won't play defense the way many Human user would want and there is a definite double edged sword to doing it manually - on the one hand, you better KNOW what you're doing because bad decisions will be difficult if not impossible to always overcome with superior stick (though it CAN be done) and on the other hand, you better be able to UNDERSTAND the gaps in your defenses. Put another way, if you have been a horrible manual defender in the past, I would not recommend that you try using a lowly rated defensive team unless you are playing a complete noob for fun. Defensive stick skills AND good, sound strategies will be essential to have any chance on defense in 2009...

I'm trying to see if I understand all of this correctly. It sounds as if the game will punish you if it's a higher rated team and you call a bad gameplan. Isn't that a realistic approach? Playcalling is a fundimental part of football. I agree with what you said, people have to understand why a defense does or doesn't work. People have complained about how effective zones were against the run and how a person could stack the box and somehow RS their way to still tip the pass to the All-American WR. I'm not feeling the complaints. You should have some knowledge as to how to call a game. And not have the time to do more than audible if you've blown the call. Or call a TO. Otherwise it's all about skills on the stick.......

[Moostache]

Quote: Originally Posted by Briankingsfan

I'm trying to see if I understand all of this correctly. It sounds as if the game will punish you if it's a higher rated team and you call a bad gameplan. Isn't that a realistic approach? Playcalling is a fundimental part of football. I agree with what you said, people have to understand why a defense does or doesn't work. People have complained about how effective zones were against the run and how a person could stack the box and somehow RS their way to still tip the pass to the All-American WR. I'm not feeling the complaints. You should have some knowledge as to how to call a game. And not have the time to do more than audible if you've blown the call. Or call a TO. Otherwise it's all about skills on the stick.......

Well...I don't think I am doing a very good job of describing this...the defense on the game has fundamental flaws and those flaws are made much, much more glaring when you have lower rated players and teams. It takes what should be a natural advantage for the better team and turns it into almost a handicap for the lower rated team.

One example I used was the difference in pass coverage for LB's like Lauranitis (OSU #33, 99 ovr) and Crum (ND, #40, 84 ovr). There is a coding issue with the way the game covers RBs out of the backfield that causes the RB to gain a ridiculous amount of separation at times. There are cases where Lauranitis defends the plays far better than Crum, and THAT is good; but there are also a fair number of times that the offense with just have an inherent advantage that can't be overcome via ratings or player control...even that doesn't really sound quite right...but what happens is that the user must manually compensate for this shortcoming.

If the HB runs an out route or an out-slant, the LB in Man Coverage will often take bad angles and end up beat pretty badly (with no "catch-up / cheat / morph-into-position" animations to compensate)...the only way to compensate for this is to manually take control of the LB and cover the RB yourself, but you have to do it technically sound (with proper pursuit angles) or you will get burned even worse. In the process of doing this, you then must rely on your other CPU defenders to do their job...only the 4-man DL pass rush is often ineffectual and leaves too much time for the QB! It ends up being a chess-match where the offense has the queen and a few bishops on the board and the defense is down to a king, a rook and a few pawns - if that makes much sense!

I think it is potentially going to be seen as "unfair" by a lot of other people. Those used to the previous iterations of NCAA and Madden may seem to find this a handicap for using their favorite team if it is not one of the top-10 teams on the game.

Hopefully, someone else will post some impressions that can clarify or amplify this...

[mdgoalie37]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

Well...I don't think I am doing a very good job of describing this...the defense on the game has fundamental flaws and those flaws are made much, much more glaring when you have lower rated players and teams. It takes what should be a natural advantage for the better team and turns it into almost a handicap for the lower rated team. One example I used was the difference in pass coverage for LB's like Lauranitis (OSU #33, 99 ovr) and Crum (ND, #40, 84 ovr). There is a coding issue with the way the game covers RBs out of the backfield that causes the RB to gain a ridiculous amount of separation at times. There are cases where Lauranitis defends the plays far better than Crum, and THAT is good; but there are also a fair number of times that the offense with just have an inherent advantage that can't be overcome via ratings or player control...even that doesn't really sound quite right...but what happens is that the user must manually compensate for this shortcoming. If the HB runs an out route or an out-slant, the LB in Man Coverage will often take bad angles and end up beat pretty badly (with no "catch-up / cheat / morph-into-position" animations to compensate)...the only way to compensate for this is to manually take control of the LB and cover the RB yourself, but you have to do it technically sound (with proper pursuit angles) or you will get burned even worse. In the process of doing this, you then must rely on your other CPU defenders to do their job...only the 4-man DL pass rush is often ineffectual and leaves too much time for the QB! It ends up being a chess-match where the offense has the queen and a few bishops on the board and the defense is down to a king, a rook and a few pawns - if that makes much sense! I think it is potentially going to be seen as "unfair" by a lot of other people. Those used to the previous iterations of NCAA and Madden may seem to find this a handicap for using their favorite team if it is not one of the top-10 teams on the game. Hopefully, someone else will post some impressions that can clarify or amplify this...

Now I preface this by saying I don't really play online, just offline dynasty but I actually like this idea. It should be extremely difficult for me to take Temple to USC and win - I should have to play an absolutely flawless game - and even then I should only win about 1 out of 10 times.

I do understand if this causes concerns online, but if ratings do matter the person with the better team does have an advantage.

[Brandwin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

I think it is potentially going to be seen as "unfair" by a lot of other people. Those used to the previous iterations of NCAA and Madden may seem to find this a handicap for using their favorite team if it is not one of the top-10 teams on the game. Hopefully, someone else will post some impressions that can clarify or amplify this...

So is this what you're saying.

I always use Baylor and by year four or five, I am a top 5 team and contending for a National Championship. I can get 5-7 wins out of Baylor the first year and after that the 8-10 win seasons are not hard to come by. Maybe now it's actually going to be tough to build a weekly rated team into a power house?