NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

[rhombic21]

People don't realize that NCAA '08 had many of the same underlying problems with gameplay that NCAA '09 did. In particular, the front 4 never got pressure. The only reason people remember that game as a sack-fest is because the blitzes worked a lot better (and there was no slide protect to adjust to them), and because Man coverage flat out cheated to take away certain quick short routes. And that silly 3 man DL crash issue. Essentially, EA fixed those things, but didn't fix the pass rush issues, which led to the offensive explosion this year.

This was NCAA '08 once people figured out how to beat the blitz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB2HkY5FQMQ

If you look, you see the same things that plague this year. QBs can still scramble around all game. If you don't blitz, the guy has all day to throw, etc...

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

People don't realize that NCAA '08 had many of the same underlying problems with gameplay that NCAA '09 did. In particular, the front 4 never got pressure. The only reason people remember that game as a sack-fest is because the blitzes worked a lot better (and there was no slide protect to adjust to them), and because Man coverage flat out cheated to take away certain quick short routes. And that silly 3 man DL crash issue. Essentially, EA fixed those things, but didn't fix the pass rush issues, which led to the offensive explosion this year. This was NCAA '08 once people figured out how to beat the blitz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB2HkY5FQMQ If you look, you see the same things that plague this year. QBs can still scramble around all game. If you don't blitz, the guy has all day to throw, etc...

Yes, I remembered being 'Nano-d' to hell last year, but at least if gave you something to think about offensively and gave most people a formidable defense.

A realistic pocket hasn't been delivered to the EA series in 20 years, but I still find it astonishing that the CG folks can do this so much better than the Next Gen. It's just a better engine and a better game.

[bangpow]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

People don't realize that NCAA '08 had many of the same underlying problems with gameplay that NCAA '09 did. In particular, the front 4 never got pressure. The only reason people remember that game as a sack-fest is because the blitzes worked a lot better (and there was no slide protect to adjust to them), and because Man coverage flat out cheated to take away certain quick short routes. And that silly 3 man DL crash issue. Essentially, EA fixed those things, but didn't fix the pass rush issues, which led to the offensive explosion this year. This was NCAA '08 once people figured out how to beat the blitz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB2HkY5FQMQ If you look, you see the same things that plague this year. QBs can still scramble around all game. If you don't blitz, the guy has all day to throw, etc...

I only play the dynasty, so nano's don't matter and I don't use them. I also tried running around with my slow *** QB without much luck.

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

Yes, I remembered being 'Nano-d' to hell last year, but at least if gave you something to think about offensively and gave most people a formidable defense.

Towards the middle to end of the year, almost everybody online had figured out how to beat the nanos from shotgun, and you basically saw the same style of play dominate then as dominates now. Everybody went shotgun and threw the ball 60 times a game, with final scores in the 50s and 60s.

My point is simply that this isn't some new set of issues. The pass rush issue with the front 4 has been a problem on next-gen forever. It was a problem on '07, it was a problem on '08, and it's a problem again this year. The only difference is that this year, they dumbed a bunch of the blitzes down, made the OL ridiculously aware about picking up the blitz, added slide protection, and "fixed" the man coverage issues, where the defense would essentially cheat and run certain short routes (hitches and slants in particular) for the offense.

That's why I cringe when I hear people say "'08 with tweaks would have been really good." '09 IS '08 with a couple tweaks, as far as gameplay is concerned.

[bangpow]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

Towards the middle to end of the year, almost everybody online had figured out how to beat the nanos from shotgun, and you basically saw the same style of play dominate then as dominates now. Everybody went shotgun and threw the ball 60 times a game, with final scores in the 50s and 60s. My point is simply that this isn't some new set of issues. The pass rush issue with the front 4 has been a problem on next-gen forever. It was a problem on '07, it was a problem on '08, and it's a problem again this year. The only difference is that this year, they dumbed a bunch of the blitzes down, made the OL ridiculously aware about picking up the blitz, added slide protection, and "fixed" the man coverage issues, where the defense would essentially cheat and run certain short routes (hitches and slants in particular) for the offense. That's why I cringe when I hear people say "'08 with tweaks would have been really good." '09 IS '08 with a couple tweaks, as far as gameplay is concerned.

Yeah, but not good tweaks and not the type of tweaks i was thinking of.

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by bangpow

Yeah, but not good tweaks and not the type of tweaks i was thinking of.

NCAA '08 (and NCAA '09) needed MASSIVE changes to core areas of gameplay. From offensive/defensive line interactions, to QB accuracy, to receiver/DB interactions, to special teams, to basic AI playcalling and strategy. I just don't think tweaking at the margins, no matter what you do, is going to get it done. I mean, if they didn't make the tweaks that they had, everybody would still be complaining about the nanos, the blitzes, and the CPU INT fest (the only reason it doesn't happen as much this year is because the QB isn't under pressure as much, if you could generate pressure on this game like you could last year, you'd have the same INT problems).

NCAA '08 basically had all the AI problems that '09 does, PLUS the ridiculous option issues, the 3 man line issues, and the inability to pick up blitzes effectively from under center.

[dkrause1971]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

That's why I cringe when I hear people say "'08 with tweaks would have been really good." '09 IS '08 with a couple tweaks, as far as gameplay is concerned.

What scare me is how many posts focus on just presentation type items for 2010. How many times do you read people wanting FCS teams, end zone art, etc, etc instead of a consensus of people complaining about the pocket, QB Acc,etc. Seriously, if your a dev reading those threads you could easily think- we'll add junk like end zone art is easier than reprogramming the gameplay, lets do that this year. I am amazed how many list that stuff as their #1 desire.

I am with you that the game needs more than tweaks

[bangpow]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

NCAA '08 (and NCAA '09) needed MASSIVE changes to core areas of gameplay. From offensive/defensive line interactions, to QB accuracy, to receiver/DB interactions, to special teams, to basic AI playcalling and strategy. I just don't think tweaking at the margins, no matter what you do, is going to get it done. I mean, if they didn't make the tweaks that they had, everybody would still be complaining about the nanos, the blitzes, and the CPU INT fest (the only reason it doesn't happen as much this year is because the QB isn't under pressure as much, if you could generate pressure on this game like you could last year, you'd have the same INT problems). NCAA '08 basically had all the AI problems that '09 does, PLUS the ridiculous option issues, the 3 man line issues, and the inability to pick up blitzes effectively from under center.

Again, all issues when playing a person. I only play dynasty mode.