Players Degression

[TrevJo]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

In the case of a Washington where they go 0-11 and finish nearly last in every team statistical category, most of their players should have lower ratings at the end of the season very similarly to how custom roster set makers downgraded them by the time December rolled around. Their players would likely gain back their rating points in the off-season, so it isn't a perpetual cycle of downward ratings.

I don't think it makes any sense to suggest that the Huskies players actually were worse players at the end of the season than they were at the start. Their results didn't improve, but that's partly because they were so bad to begin with, and partly because their opponents were improving as fast or faster than they were.

[TrevJo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Undefeated

I don't want a guy to go from 84 to 50 in one off-season, but I would have no problem with an 84 dropping to an 80, then to 77, then to 73

To me, that's crazy. How is a player really going to become that much worse of a football player throughout the course of a career? In real life, if the kid stops working out or something, I can see that. But in the game, just because he's getting beat on the field he gets worse, it doesn't make sense. A lot of times when you struggle, that's when you learn and get better.

[youALREADYknow]

Quote: Originally Posted by TrevJo

It's really not. Over the long-term, I have seen plenty of players fail to get better, but to actually get worse, short of injuries or aging (i.e. 30+), it's not realistic. I'm talking about football players I have actually played with. It's easy to look at a guy who had success (great stats or what have you) early on in a career and struggled later (i.e. bad stats) and say he got worse, but it's safe to say that the reality is he didn't get worse, his situation did.

All fine and dandy, but we don't have situational ratings. We have very finite ratings and I see no reason why the progression rating (Awareness) and the hidden confidence/composure rating can't both progress and regress for a given player.

It would be absurd to suggest that a player's speed or throwing power should regress during a season, but there has to be a penalty to players who don't get playing time and/or perform poorly on the field. I shouldn't be rewarded for over-recruiting at a position and sitting good players on the bench. These guys should not be getting Awareness progression during a season by sitting on the bench as the 4th string as they currently do.

Washington's winless record wouldn't be the reason that a given player would regress. The performance of each player and the units on the team would be the reason for regression/progression. Obviously as a winless team, you are more likely to have poor performances from players but it is not always the case. The performance is what should matter.

Over the long-term, there likely wouldn't be a player in the game who would suffer from lower ratings over a career because of the off-season progression. An even further addition to the progression/regression system would be a player's conditioning (STA/INJ) wearing down over the course of a season from their base rating.

There is so much more that this game can do in terms of player development and right now we have the same old stale system.

[Hellisan]

I think if they institute regression, they should do it based on something like a player's dedication to the team, or work ethic, or something. Have certain players gain too much weight and lose agility, or some players lose speed permanently due to serious injuries, or whatever.... But don't base it on stats.

As people have pointed out, if it is based on stats, there WILL be problems. Not that there couldn't be an algorithm worked out that could compare a player's stats (given his playing time) to what he should be producing given his OVR rating... but would you trust EA (or really, any gaming company) to do this perfectly the first time ... or ever?

I sure wouldn't.

[Colorado Cooler]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hellisan

I think if they institute regression, they should do it based on something like a player's dedication to the team, or work ethic, or something. Have certain players gain too much weight and lose agility, or some players lose speed permanently due to serious injuries, or whatever.... But don't base it on stats. As people have pointed out, if it is based on stats, there WILL be problems. Not that there couldn't be an algorithm worked out that could compare a player's stats (given his playing time) to what he should be producing given his OVR rating... but would you trust EA (or really, any gaming company) to do this perfectly the first time ... or ever? I sure wouldn't.

While I'm not excited about a random regression system, I do believe that nagging injuries are one of the more significant features of college football that are not represented in this game. Virtually every game features players who are slowed by injuries. Coaches are constantly challenged to make decisions as to whether to play a kid with a limiting injury or to sit him in favor of a lesser player and let the injury heal. Attribute measurements for stamina, agility, speed, strength and acceleration, to name just a few, slide up and down when a player nurses an injury. It would be realistic for a player's effectiveness to nosedive if he is sidelined even temporarily with an injury.

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hellisan

I think if they institute regression, they should do it based on something like a player's dedication to the team, or work ethic, or something. Have certain players gain too much weight and lose agility, or some players lose speed permanently due to serious injuries, or whatever.... But don't base it on stats. As people have pointed out, if it is based on stats, there WILL be problems. Not that there couldn't be an algorithm worked out that could compare a player's stats (given his playing time) to what he should be producing given his OVR rating... but would you trust EA (or really, any gaming company) to do this perfectly the first time ... or ever? I sure wouldn't.

Quote: Originally Posted by Colorado Cooler

While I'm not excited about a random regression system, I do believe that nagging injuries are one of the more significant features of college football that are not represented in this game. Virtually every game features players who are slowed by injuries. Coaches are constantly challenged to make decisions as to whether to play a kid with a limiting injury or to sit him in favor of a lesser player and let the injury heal. Attribute measurements for stamina, agility, speed, strength and acceleration, to name just a few, slide up and down when a player nurses an injury. It would be realistic for a player's effectiveness to nosedive if he is sidelined even temporarily with an injury.

My point is the progressive engine is pretty random. I have player who play lights out barely move and I have back up Qb's that progress faster than the my Heisman candidate Qb. The system is broke anyways.

I want a system that makes more sense so I dont have some guys gaining 8 points in a season where he only plays 20 snaps. Then there are pre-season all americans that have a career low year and still end the season with better ratings then he start the year.

Prefect example Brian Brohm he was expected to be the 1st overall pick went back to school struggled and was draft in the 2nd round i believe! I wanna see this in the game.

[Hellisan]

Quote: Originally Posted by da ThRONe

My point is the progressive engine is pretty random. I have player who play lights out barely move and I have back up Qb's that progress faster than the my Heisman candidate Qb. The system is broke anyways. I want a system that makes more sense so I dont have some guys gaining 8 points in a season where he only plays 20 snaps. Then there are pre-season all americans that have a career low year and still end the season with better ratings then he start the year. Prefect example Brian Brohm he was expected to be the 1st overall pick went back to school struggled and was draft in the 2nd round i believe! I wanna see this in the game.

O.k., but what really happened with Brian Brohm was that he was never all that talented to begin with. Most people who really watched him - his athleticism, arm, etc... knew he would never be a great NFL QB. I know there were some mitigating factors with the team losing a lot of talent and/or maybe also their coach, etc.... Honestly, more than any other QB I ever saw he reminded me of Jeff Brohm. I never saw anything more than a guy who could find the open guy in short areas and had a weak arm and no athleticism to speak of. System QB just like a Graham Harrell or what have you.

Also... Are you SURE you want progression based on how well the player is doing? I mean, you think people in OD's are stat whoring now, just to get a Heisman? Imagine if it also controlled improvement.... Ugh.

It's "random" because the game isn't deep enough to describe why one player gains a lot more than another in a career, but I'm pretty sure there's a hidden progression or potential rating in there somewhere...

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hellisan

O.k., but what really happened with Brian Brohm was that he was never all that talented to begin with. Most people who really watched him - his athleticism, arm, etc... knew he would never be a great NFL QB. I know there were some mitigating factors with the team losing a lot of talent and/or maybe also their coach, etc.... Honestly, more than any other QB I ever saw he reminded me of Jeff Brohm. I never saw anything more than a guy who could find the open guy in short areas and had a weak arm and no athleticism to speak of. System QB just like a Graham Harrell or what have you.

My point was simply this it happens I didnt get into the specifics!

Quote: Originally Posted by Hellisan

Also... Are you SURE you want progression based on how well the player is doing? I mean, you think people in OD's are stat whoring now, just to get a Heisman? Imagine if it also controlled improvement.... Ugh.

If they make this game as challenging as it should be it wont be that easy. And if they dont address gameplay and A.I. player progressing is the least of our worries.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hellisan

It's "random" because the game isn't deep enough to describe why one player gains a lot more than another in a career, but I'm pretty sure there's a hidden progression or potential rating in there somewhere...

But "random" is pointless and isnt "sim"! I cant think of a player who got better from playing poorly! Maybe the back up QB getting better from watching on the side lines is a real representation but it just being random "Just blows my high" and I would rather they dont progress during the season at all if its not based on logic or they dont regress as well.