Not all about Speed(long)

[prototype561]

I read the thread about highest rated players in Ncaa 10, and people got into a debate about the fastest players. There are a lot myths in halve truths about speed. Football spd is totally different then track spd. People believe that Usain Bolt would run a the 40 in under 4 secs which is not true. It has been calculated numerous times that his first 40 during his WR 9.69 run was only a 4.29-4.35. Never on a football field is a player expected to run 100yds. On an occasion they may run a 60 or a 40. But a 20yds should be more of what a people look at. Its quite possible that some of the guys in the nfl or ncaa could compete or even beat Usain Bolt for the first 40. An elite NFL or Ncaa player just like elite sprinter normally maximizes his acceleration potential, basically saying a human can only accelerate so fast. What seperates football guys from the track guys is his top end speed. Thats why fast players like Hester would hang with Bolt for the first 40, but after that first 40 Hester has already reached his top speed while Bolt is still accelerating, this is where the seperation begins and ultimately would lead to Hester being smoked in 100m. I actually played high school ball with D Hester so i know what he can do, hes still very fast to the average human but to elite sprinter he would be slow with his 10.45 time at UM. So actually in a football videogame they should put more of a priority of acceleration and top end spd of a absolute scale. So only a few players reach 99spd. So they have to choose either football spd or legit spd. It seems that try to have both. The only players that should be 93+ spd is Demps, Ford, Holliday, and Garvin. I think they should change the spd rating to only have really fast guys less often with the elite spd being 90-95, and every few years have guys that have WR spd being over 95. That way u can still have fast guys but putting the imphasis on acceleration. Thanks guys for listening, i know it was long lol.

[eritraj]

The game will feel way too slow with only 4 players above 93 speed. 88-90 speed feels like youre crawling.

Speed should be more tiered than anything.

Demps, Holliday and Ford should be 99 speed thats it...The three fastest players.

Then the next tier of very fast players at 98 speed...and so on.

It all about how accurately players speed is calculated in relation to other players...

[stylee]

I actually think you make a good point.

It's true that elite sprinters take longer to accelerate - Usain, Asafa, Tyson, & co. will reach top speed anywhere between 50-60 meters.

But faster people's "accelerating speed" is still going to be greater than that of slower folks

while it's true that Usain's electronically timed 40 is somewhere between 4.2 and 4.4, that doesn't mean Devin Hester could keep up with him for 40 yards - it means that the inherent fallibilty of hand-timed 40s lends itself to misleading results.

With reaction time and true electronic timing factored in, Hester's time would no longer be in the 4.2s. I promise you that. Let's say, optimistically, that it's in the 4.5s. He's still behind Bolt by a considerable margin.

So I don't think there are many (or any) guys in the NFL or NCAA who could keep up with Usain for the first 40. Only one guy did in the Olympics - Richard Thompson. Most guys in the NFL "true 40" is not anywhere near what they ran in the combine or pro day, because all of those feature some sort of hand timing and no reaction time.

But you're completely right that often the margin of difference between guys with greater "top speed" (full speed - usually not achieved for 50 or 55 meters) and others is not as great as track times might indicate because

a) rarely does anyone run far enough on a football field to achieve this speed

b) sometimes guys who are slower really do accelerate at such greater rate than faster guys that they can outpace them for a shorter distance.


So, yes...more weight needs to be given to Acceleration and fewer people need super high Speed ratings

[sooners52794]

Great idea! I think this would ultimately come down to ncaa being like madden w/ the sim engine, and great players only being 90 ovr and avg players being in the mid 70's, like college hoops 2k8. Right now, 90 speed is average, and 94 speed is fast but unspectacular, and this should not be the case. Theres guys like DeAngelo Hall who have high end speed but bad acceleration, guys who have the initial burst (cant think of one but there are many) but thats pretty much it, and theres guys like that bum on the saints (you know...) who start out with a burst and keep accelerating. Many people dont have both football and track speed like you said, just one or the other. Adrian Peterson is a guy who definitely has great football speed, even elite football speed, but not as good track speed, and its not a matter of acceleration or top end speed, he has both. he ran a 4.40 at the combine, and was definitely not the fastest guys there. but hes one of the fastest in the nfl now.

[prototype561]

Quote: Originally Posted by stylee

I actually think you make a good point. It's true that elite sprinters take longer to accelerate - Usain, Asafa, Tyson, & co. will reach top speed anywhere between 50-60 meters. But faster people's "accelerating speed" is still going to be greater than that of slower folks while it's true that Usain's electronically timed 40 is somewhere between 4.2 and 4.4, that doesn't mean Devin Hester could keep up with him for 40 yards - it means that the inherent fallibilty of hand-timed 40s lends itself to misleading results. With reaction time and true electronic timing factored in, Hester's time would no longer be in the 4.2s. I promise you that. Let's say, optimistically, that it's in the 4.5s. He's still behind Bolt by a considerable margin. So I don't think there are many (or any) guys in the NFL or NCAA who could keep up with Usain for the first 40. Only one guy did in the Olympics - Richard Thompson. Most guys in the NFL "true 40" is not anywhere near what they ran in the combine or pro day, because all of those feature some sort of hand timing and no reaction time. But you're completely right that often the margin of difference between guys with greater "top speed" (full speed - usually not achieved for 50 or 55 meters) and others is not as great as track times might indicate because a) rarely does anyone run far enough on a football field to achieve this speed b) sometimes guys who are slower really do accelerate at such greater rate than faster guys that they can outpace them for a shorter distance. So, yes...more weight needs to be given to Acceleration and fewer people need super high Speed ratings

yep u r correct, i just was using Hester as example, but there are a few guys in ncaa in nfl that run legit 4.3's and 4.4's, i was saying hypothetically that fastest players in college in nfl would have enough acc. to hang for a while but will quickly fall behind, with the exception of a few, but u r def correct, we kinda said the same thing lol

[TrevJo]

stylee, you make a good point about reaction time. In Olympic sprints, you hear the gun and then you go. A the NFL Combine, you go and then they start the watch.

[da ThRONe]

Acceleration should mean more in football than speed! Speed should be how fast you move at top speed with we should rarely see in the game. Accel should be how fast you reach top speed! In football you have to stop and/or change direction so much its rare to reach top speed so people who get there late wont be nearly as good in football. The reason people were crazy over Usain Bolt would be forty time is because they said what his forty time would be once he reach top speed.

[flow32]

Bro, I agree with you 100%. If this was implemented in the game, I would be so crunk! Acceleration means nothing in these video games, but its so imperative in real life. These guys getting hyped up because of their 40 or 100 meter times kill me. I always tell my friends about Troy Willamson who played at South Carolina. Guy was a track star, but could not run routes to save his life. I knew when he was running a fade because he would come off the line as if it were the 100m dash. When he ran a anything else he was at average speed becuase he was so fast he couldnt slow down to make a proper cuts. When the Vikings drafted him, I called "Bust" immeadately! Samething goes for corners, DeAngelo Hall is a big culprit in this. If your running a fade, he can run with you all day. But if your runinng a intermediate route, you can destroy him all day (Royal from the Broncos). Look at Barry Sanders, (one of the greatest backs of all time in college and NFL) the guy had elite agility and a elite burst, but it was only good for over 20-30 yds. I argued with a friend because he felt thats Barry Sanders had elite speed. But I seen him get run down plenty of times because he had no top end speed. This stuff needs to be fixed!