The rumor mill, the flexbone, and OL/DL

[steebu]

Quote: Originally Posted by noplace

This is a mood point. EA cant even get the simple things right. How are they gonna program an unblocked player to make a choice between the QB & RB? It they did this it would be one way or the other. Still broken!

I guess I'm not sure what you're saying here.

If they DO program the unblocked lineman to pick between the QB and RB then what breaks? If the offensive player sees the DL go for the B-back then he pulls the ball out of the B-back's belly. If he sees the DL squat then he releases the ball to the B-back.

The defensive picking algorithm itself would obviously have to change up defensive calls. If you know you're playing an option team then you can set your assignments such that the DE takes the dive, OLB takes QB, and FS takes the pitch. But, emphasis is ALWAYS on the offense, and defensive AI has never improved over the years except by

1. crippling the offensive player stats (why does my 93 speed WR get hauled down by a 82 speed SS?)
2. deliberately making the offensive players make mistakes (throwing an out pattern to a WR who's open, yet the QB deliberately throws 10 yards BEHIND the WR straight to the OLB)

The easy way out, of course, is to just roll the dice: 50% of the time the dive responsibility player (usually the DE) takes the dive, and 50% of the time he takes the QB (adjusted for player intelligence, etc.). That way it cheaply simulates bad play: the coaches may tell the DE "YOU ALWAYS TAKE THE DIVE" and on one play he squats, resulting in a 40-yard run by the B-back/fullback.

[stylee]

That's the way I've always thought it should function - depending on the team, there would be some percentage of the time that an End would take Dive, some percentage of the time that the OLB would take QB.

If it were user-controlled, you could set your own rules or something.

I suppose it will never actually be in the game, so the point is moot. Blahhhhh.

TeamBuilder does look really awesome but I can't see myself buying the game.

[LucianoJJ]

If the option is botched in NCAA 10, then OMT and the crew needs to make fixing the option a priority in NCAA 11. The option is one of the strategies that separates college football from pro (the No Fun League). The option is an alternative to the smash mouth running game, or the "basketball on grass" passing game. Giving us a workable option brings us closer to having a sim, rather than an arcade game.

I hope the rest of the game is very good. I realize it can't be perfect. It hard to believe we have two and a half months to wait for it.

[UnderRatedCoast]

Quote: Originally Posted by steebu

I guess I'm not sure what you're saying here. If they DO program the unblocked lineman to pick between the QB and RB then what breaks? If the offensive player sees the DL go for the B-back then he pulls the ball out of the B-back's belly. If he sees the DL squat then he releases the ball to the B-back. The defensive picking algorithm itself would obviously have to change up defensive calls. If you know you're playing an option team then you can set your assignments such that the DE takes the dive, OLB takes QB, and FS takes the pitch. But, emphasis is ALWAYS on the offense, and defensive AI has never improved over the years except by 1. crippling the offensive player stats (why does my 93 speed WR get hauled down by a 82 speed SS?) 2. deliberately making the offensive players make mistakes (throwing an out pattern to a WR who's open, yet the QB deliberately throws 10 yards BEHIND the WR straight to the OLB) The easy way out, of course, is to just roll the dice: 50% of the time the dive responsibility player (usually the DE) takes the dive, and 50% of the time he takes the QB (adjusted for player intelligence, etc.). That way it cheaply simulates bad play: the coaches may tell the DE "YOU ALWAYS TAKE THE DIVE" and on one play he squats, resulting in a 40-yard run by the B-back/fullback.

Here are the problems I envision they would have with leaving a guy unblocked:

1) Just like when you run the QB choice option in '09, by the time the snap gets to the QB and begins performing the option, the DE that you are supposed to be optioning is just getting to the LOS. The QB does not ride the HB, so you only have a fraction of a second to decide to hand off or keep the ball, so what ends up happening is the DE can tackle either guy he wants. If you hand it off, he just tracks the RB down from behind, if you keep it, he's got the QB all shored up. If you are able to leave the DE unblocked on a normal triple option, all that is going to happen is the DE will run toward the QB and FB when they are meshing, then he's got his choice on who he tackles. If you hand off, he'll tackle the FB from behind. If you keep it, he'll tackle the QB for a loss.

2) Just like in the speed option in '09, there is often an unblocked OLB or SS on the playside. He'll run toward your QB which will cause you to pitch, but instead of tackling the QB, he'll just turn and chase down your RB who had to slow way down to catch the pitch (especially if it's a human opponent...hope your pitch didn't get intercepted!).

3) QBs are really fragile and get hurt all of the time. Pretty annoying.

[stylee]

Good points, underrated.

I should have thought about slide protecting away from my playside on triple option from under center.
Does anyone want to try that out and see if it leaves the DE unblocked?

There would obviously still be major issues, but just as an experiment

[TrevJo]

Quote: Originally Posted by UnderRatedCoast

The QB does not ride the HB, so you only have a fraction of a second to decide to hand off or keep the ball, so what ends up happening is the DE can tackle either guy he wants.

Good point, Riding the HB is something they also need to implement if they want to make the option work correctly.

Quote: Originally Posted by UnderRatedCoast

2) Just like in the speed option in '09, there is often an unblocked OLB or SS on the playside.

I probably don't understand the option as well as a lot of people posting on the subject, but isn't that the point of not blocking the DE? So you can get an extra downfield block?

[TrevJo]

Quote: Originally Posted by stylee

Good points, underrated. I should have thought about slide protecting away from my playside on triple option from under center. Does anyone want to try that out and see if it leaves the DE unblocked? There would obviously still be major issues, but just as an experiment

That sounds like a good experiment.
Don't have time to try it, but I'm thinking you'd have a problem in that there's no one to block the LB/S if you do this. So my guess is, this might realistically simulate leaving the DE unblocked, but you'd be totally screwed after you got by him.

[stevedrumsdw]

Quote: Originally Posted by TrevJo

That sounds like a good experiment. Don't have time to try it, but I'm thinking you'd have a problem in that there's no one to block the LB/S if you do this. So my guess is, this might realistically simulate leaving the DE unblocked, but you'd be totally screwed after you got by him.

good point