Slant routes

[prototype561]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

You can't put the LBs in zone if your CBs are in man without having huge holes in your defense. It would stop the slant, but be too vulnerable to other routes to be an effective defense. As others have stated, the main problem is that the game needs to having the ability to shade a CB to the inside or outside. The problem with having slants be money against man coverage is that it severely limits certain kinds of defenses. Most man to man defenses, particularly those that involve a blitz, have the CBs shaded to the inside to try and prevent quick slants. The idea is that if you give up the outside, that throw is further, and thus makes it harder for the QB to get the ball to the WR before the CB has a chance to recover and break it up. Plus you have the sideline as an extra defender. If you essentially have to play zone just to stop the slants, then it opens up other things, like the running game, and that's not necessarily realistic. The issue isn't that man coverage should necessarily shut down slants, but rather that you should have the ability to tell your defender to take away the slant and force the offense to throw something else. Otherwise, it's just too easy for people to read man/zone prior to the snap, and then just hot route to a slant anytime that they see man coverage, and know that the guy will be open unless an extra defender drops into a zone or spy. Even if they're not going to add in a command to shade the CBs, they ought to at least make the adaptive AI such that after one or two slants get completed, the AI defender will jump the route and force the offense to throw something else. As it is, you can basically go all the way down the field throwing slant after slant, and the CB in man coverage will never play the route any differently.

Thats what i just said,finally someone else who knows a lil football knowledge, i wonder if ea hires position coaches or at the very least offensive and defensive coordinators to help with the production of the game?

[jdrhammer]

I've been trying different things and playing Man QB Spy to have that LB watching the middle but it seems like he doesn't react well. Also, when I don't have both Safety's back in coverage it seems like my *** gets burned every time. And I'm not talking about gambling either. I'll play with it some more. I'm liking the demo the more I fool with it.

One thing still missing is the D's lack of reaction to the ball overall. It seems like it's just that one defender who is playing the WR making the catch. It just seems like the D doesn't react quickly enough on pass plays. I still keep getting burned over the middle and some of it would help if the D would help out and be in position but its a big gain every time.

[NoLittleBabies]

Quote: Originally Posted by coachchris

Perhaps the OP can tell us when he thinks a slant route should be successful? This is not sarcasm I would like to know. It would be great if we could shade our corners and something that is needed back in the game. If the point is that a great corner should be able to play 3-4 yards off and jump slant routes this does happen but that corner needs to be extremely aggressive. Also for the sake of realism if you want that corner to be aggressive and jump slants then my sluggo better be wide open because that is what happens in real life. IMO

All I'm asking for is corners in man to be better prepared for inside routes. Rhombic really made all of my points for me, so I'll quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

The problem with having slants be money against man coverage is that it severely limits certain kinds of defenses. Most man to man defenses, particularly those that involve a blitz, have the CBs shaded to the inside to try and prevent quick slants. The idea is that if you give up the outside, that throw is further, and thus makes it harder for the QB to get the ball to the WR before the CB has a chance to recover and break it up. Plus you have the sideline as an extra defender. If you essentially have to play zone just to stop the slants, then it opens up other things, like the running game, and that's not necessarily realistic. The issue isn't that man coverage should necessarily shut down slants, but rather that you should have the ability to tell your defender to take away the slant and force the offense to throw something else. Otherwise, it's just too easy for people to read man/zone prior to the snap, and then just hot route to a slant anytime that they see man coverage, and know that the guy will be open unless an extra defender drops into a zone or spy. Even if they're not going to add in a command to shade the CBs, they ought to at least make the adaptive AI such that after one or two slants get completed, the AI defender will jump the route and force the offense to throw something else. As it is, you can basically go all the way down the field throwing slant after slant, and the CB in man coverage will never play the route any differently.

As he says, with man defenses (especially those with blitzes or no short middle zone help) the corners generally are asked to shade the middle by default, as slants, posts, drags, etc. will be what the QB looks for immediately after recognizing the man coverage.

I'm certainly not asking that slants be completely shut down with a basic man coverage, but I am asking that the corners have the AI to realize they need to watch the inside routes, and show considerably more urgency in attempting to cut them off, or at least get to the inside hip of the receiver in order to potentially make a play on the pass. In the demo, I see highly-rated cornerbacks in man allowing the receiver to cut inside without any sort of contest, and then trailing a whole two yards behind the receiver as if they had plenty of help in the middle, when in fact they have none.

This is awful for people who play online, because it means the only time you can even try man coverage against a smart player is when you bump. And that's certainly not realistic, as most teams in real life play bump and run pretty rarely, and yet still play man coverage and manage to not give up every inside route that is run. So the idea that you should have to play bump and run in order to have any chance of stopping a quick slant is silly and not based in real life football. So if EA is not going to make the default man coverage (on most plays) shade the inside of the receivers, then at least give us the pre-play (or at the playcalling screen) option to do it ourselves. Because I want to be able to switch up man and zone coverages, just like real life teams do, and be confident that my players at least have a reasonable chance to stop the basic routes.

[coachchris]

NLB,

I respect the request for realism. There is no arguing the fact that in most cases corners will shade/look for inside routes and not just trail an inside route for an automatic completion. I do not remember how well the shading option worked when it was in the game but it sure would be a welcome addition back to the game if done correctly.

All I ever look for is to get the most realistic gameplay we can get. I know the defensive AI needs all the help they can get but my hope would be if the shading option was implemented it is realistic. So if you are playing someone online who plays man and jumps inside routes every play a sluggo or fade route is a viable option to counteract that without having to do a rocket catch or some other cheese move.