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Old 07-10-2009, 05:47 PM   #49
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Re: More on sam keller and the lawsuit

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Originally Posted by DeceptiveBlaze
Do you not realize what kids would do to get a full ride at a huge university? Kids work their *** off in school, get a 4.0 taking 5 AP classes, and they won't get a full ride at some colleges, but just because you can catch a football, you should get one? Which helps people more?

Roggie your true colors are showing but i will give you that i did lie lol my dad's average is 235 and mine 215 ok i embellished but my dad is in prison if you must know why he isn't bowling. That line there is what this entire thread is about. It is about jealousy period awww my grades are more important in the world who cares that is not what this is about its about whether it should be ok for then to be compensated and if you think they don't deserve a stipend then your just a *****

O and to choadler yea i have so much growing up to do and alot more to see going to rome, japan, england, africa means nothing right the truth is you know nothing about me at all but yet you know what ive done right. i laugh at you hahahahahah lol
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:07 PM   #50
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Re: More on sam keller and the lawsuit

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Originally Posted by DeceptiveBlaze
Ignorance must truly be bliss. Choadler could you go back and read the entire post before you chose to quote parts of it. I didn't compare athletic to academic. I actually said academic instead of athletic ok. A player should have a choice to accept one or the other if it is an option. If you choose not to accept an athletic scholarship then you should be able to accept endorsements or accept endorsements if you pay for your own schooling. What it sounds like to me is that your just one of the bookworms jealous cause i jock has it to easy lol seems like your stuck in high school yet we need perspective lmao.

To jeeves what i said is a base salary for all athletes not dependant on revenue generated by a sport but for all collegiate ncaa athletes such and i think more like a 400 dollar a month stipend. What can of worms would that open. I think that bench players should be compensated because did you forget the commitment it takes going to practice to be a crash test dummy and never seeing the field even though you do make players around you better.

To roggie i resent the fact you say talent is natural born. Athleticism is born not talent or skill. That is honed thru practice and my ceiling in baseball was high enough for me to get a scholarship, football 2. But it was because i worked hard ( i first played basball my junior year in hs) and practiced with my all heart and soul because i wanted to be good( no not anymore because game design in my tru passion now lol) And for a college athlete sports is his job and he earns the scholarship thru hard work from a young age then thru college and it is no free ride at all. I admit i was lazy and thought baseball was boring so i revoked my own scholarship and still remain objective in this argument. And saying you could go D-1 if bowling was a sport is like sayin i could go D-! in videogaming if it was a sport but its not.

p.s. before you talk about how hard bowling is my average is 225 and my dad's is 253 so i know about bowling
This is not allowed for one big reason, what is to stop the boosters of the big schools from giving all the high ranking recruits the money to pay for their own schooling as long as they walk on the football team. This rule is in place to keep schools from being able to buy recruits which I would hope we can all agree should not be allowed
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:41 PM   #51
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Re: More on sam keller and the lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Sauk
And I continue to argue that their education isn't paid for but rather earned. Just liked you earned money to pay for your education, they are just doing it a different way then what you did.

Their education is not free, it is not paid for like giving candy to a kid.

They work to get that thing and keep it just like the average joe working at the grocery store or you.

And he did not pursue a lawsuit during his career if I read that right. He did so afterwards.

Why be thankful for the opportunity for the scholarship? You worked to get it and EARN it.
I agree with you 100% that a scholarship is earned, but why be thankfull for the scholarship? How about because their are hundreds if not thousands of people who also worked their tails off in High school who didn't get that scholarship. Go ask any walkon on any team in the county if he would be thankful for a scholarship, and if he thinks that all the guys on that have scholarships work that much harder than him.
Scholarships are definately earned, but not just because you work harder than everyone else.
I will say that I side with those who say that college athletes do not deserve any more compensation than the education (notice I'm not calling it a free education, it is compensation for the service they provide the university as an athlete) , books, housing, and food that are all part of the scholarship they recieve. Yes they work hard, but they get all those things, that the rest of us have to pay for. I worked 40+ hrs a week and took a full course load for four straight years (even in the summers) Don't tell me you or any other student athlete worked harder than I did, and I won't tell you that I work harder than you. The fact of the matter is that we both worked hard so that we could stay in school, the only difference is that when we were done with school I had tons of loans to repay, and those athletes were either making millions in the pros or at the very least had no debt related to their time in college.
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:56 PM   #52
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Re: More on sam keller and the lawsuit

I had debt Just not as much...living on scholarship money off campus was not easy lol
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Old 07-10-2009, 07:56 PM   #53
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Re: More on sam keller and the lawsuit

It all comes down to the NCAA Bylaws and the contract that the players signed to play college sports. If you look at the bylaws, it comes down to this: http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uplo...d6827c16bc.pdf

12.5 PRO MOTIONAL ACTIVITIES
12.5.1 Permissible.
12.5.1.1 Institutional, Charitable, Education or Nonprofit Promotions. A member institution or recognized
entity thereof (e.g., fraternity, sorority or student government organization), a member conference or
a noninstitutional charitable, educational or nonprofit agency may use a student-athlete’s name, picture or appearance
to support its charitable or educational activities or to support activities considered incidental to the
student-athlete’s participation in intercollegiate athletics, provided the following conditions are met: (Revised:
1/11/89, 1/10/91, 1/10/92)
(a) The student-athlete receives written approval to participate from the director of athletics (or his or her
designee who may not be a coaching staff member), subject to the limitations on participants in such
activities as set forth in Bylaw 17; (Revised: 1/11/89, 4/26/01)
(b) The specific activity or project in which the student-athlete participates does not involve cosponsorship,
advertisement or promotion by a commercial agency other than through the reproduction of the sponsoring
company’s officially registered regular trademark or logo on printed materials such as pictures,
posters or calendars. The company’s emblem, name, address, telephone number and Web site address
may be included with the trademark or logo. Personal names, messages and slogans (other than an officially
registered trademark) are prohibited; (Revised: 1/11/89, 1/10/91, 5/6/08)
(c) The name or picture of a student-athlete with remaining eligibility may not appear on an institution’s
printed promotional item (e.g., poster, calendar) that includes a reproduction of a product with which
a commercial entity is associated if the commercial entity’s officially registered regular trademark or logo
also appears on the item; (Adopted: 11/12/97)
(d) The student-athlete does not miss class; (Revised: 1/11/89)
(e) All moneys derived from the activity or project go directly to the member institution, member conference
or the charitable, educational or nonprofit agency; (Revised: 1/11/89, 1/10/92)
(f ) The student-athlete may accept actual and necessary expenses from the member institution, member
conference or the charitable, educational or nonprofit agency related to participation in such activity;
(Revised: 1/11/89, 1/10/92, 4/28/05)
(g) The student-athlete’s name, picture or appearance is not used to promote the commercial ventures of any
nonprofit agency; (Adopted: 1/10/92)
(h) Any commercial items with names, likenesses or pictures of multiple student-athletes (other than highlight
films or media guides per Bylaw 12.5.1.7) may be sold only at the member institution at which the
student-athletes are enrolled, institutionally controlled (owned and operated) outlets or outlets controlled
by the charitable or educational organization (e.g., location of the charitable or educational organization,
site of charitable event during the event). Items that include an individual student-athlete’s name, picture
or likeness (e.g., name on jersey, name or likeness on a bobble-head doll), other than informational items
(e.g., media guide, schedule cards, institutional publications), may not be sold; and (Adopted: 1/16/93,
Revised: 1/9/96, 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)
(i) The student-athlete and an authorized representative of the charitable, educational or nonprofit agency
sign a release statement ensuring that the student-athlete’s name, image or appearance is used in a manner
consistent with the requirements of this section. (Revised: 1/11/89, 1/10/92)


IMO... this is a touchy one... I think it comes down to the meaning and extent of the concept of "likeness". The fact is that college athletes will not be compensated no matter what, in order to maintain amateur status. This includes Keller who would likely not be compensated because recieving compensation after graduation based on collegiate athletics is expressly prohibited in the bylaws, which Keller signed, and it is a part that would not be voided regardless of outcome in the trial. I think that would hold true in this ex post facto case, especially since the violation (if determined to be so) would include all of the players in the current game (2010), some of which will not graduate until 2014. Aside from that, not all of the profit derived can be argued to be based on player likeness. Much of it is from the university, their logos/mascots, the game of football itself, etc. Additionally, not all players bring an equal appeal. Some more than others, and there are other athletes who were not included, or included but with errors (jersey number, race). It is impossible to determine the magnitude of the effect or to accurately attribute it to each individual.

IMO.. I don't know anything, but.. I see that the only thing that could change here is that NCAA Football video games would be forced to randomize the players a bit. Stop doing what they are doing. Compensation for NCAA athletes will not be the result of this or any other lawsuit IMO. What that means to EA Sports, though, is up for debate.
Do jersey numbers alone constitute likeness? What about race? What about if you add in home town? What if you have ht/wt in? Or out? What combination of the above factors constitute likeness, if any of them?
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:00 PM   #54
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Re: More on sam keller and the lawsuit

I read this article last Saturday in the NYT.

What a loser.
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:47 PM   #55
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Re: More on sam keller and the lawsuit

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As gamers we may not like where this lawsuit ends up going, but Keller has a very strong argument and is not the bad guy here. The real culprit is the NCAA. What Keller's suit is saying is that the NCAA forces all college athletes to sign a document that prevents the athlete from making money off of his or her likeness. However, the NCAA then goes out and makes money, as an institution, off of that very likeness.

Video games are the example here, but it occurs in all areas of NCAA publicity. Tim Tebow and Sam Bradford's images were all over publicity for the BCS championship yet neither player received compensation (other than their scholarships) for the use. It is a system that is set up to benefit the NCAA, the sponsors, the universities and the fans, but not the players (at least not directly).

As an avid gamer and fan of NCAA series (except the last two lousy versions), I will be as disappointed as everyone else if this results in EA and the NCAA acting in such a way as to reduce our enjoyment of the game; however, I can understand the viewpoint of the athletes that feel their likeness is being used without appropriate compensation.

The problem could be solved if EA would have simply utilized generic player likenesses in the base roster but allow the community to fully and easily edit every aspect of the player and roster. My fear is that the greed of the NCAA may result in this option being taken away as a result of the lawsuit. It would be a shame for this to happen but it is a possibility.

As for the final comment by the player who agrees with the lawsuit but loves the game. The positions aren't mutually exclusive. The athletes love the game and love their likenesses being in the game, but I'm sure they would also love to get paid for the use of this likeness rather than seeing all revenues go to EA and the NCAA.
NCAA players do get compensated twofold. One, they get a free ride to a diploma from a higher institute of learning. Two, they get a stage in which to audition for some of the highest paid labor jobs in the world.

Is it fair the NCAA and EA makes millions and it doesn't trickle down to the players? Not really but since the players are already getting a clear advantage in life by partaking of the system one can hardly say they are victims.

The article mentions Tebow and the comparisons. His hometown being wrong is a great example of what EA has no doubt built-in to potentially quash any lawsuits like this. Just enough errors to show that while there is likeness there it isn't 100%.

As I've stated before, the fact that the NCAA can sell jerseys of #2 like crazy for the Buckeyes and not give Pryor a dime is proof that they will never lose a lawsuit like this. When you go to a Bucks game and everyone and their brother is wearing #2 we all know it is Pryor's jersey but legally it's just a number. That is no different for the video game. We all know it's Tebow but EA doesn't ship it with it saying it's Tebow so it's not Tebow.

FAIL.
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:10 PM   #56
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Re: More on sam keller and the lawsuit

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It really is sad to see some of your comments regarding this issue. And they are only said because you think it will ruin the game lol

He has a case and they should be given royalties. They are not allowed to profit, so why should the NCAA and 3rd parties? Why the double standard?

And don't say well they are given free schooling crap, they earned that by playing that sport to it's highest levels. It was EARNED, not given to them.

Some of you need to grow up and realize this isn't fun anymore, it is a BIG dollar business. And guess what, college athletes are big boys to now.
I bet you're a blast at parties.
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