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Real life NCAA ?: Do programs ever go from high prestige to very low prestige?

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Old 08-23-2009, 11:14 AM   #25
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Re: Real life NCAA ?: Do programs ever go from high prestige to very low prestige?

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Originally Posted by JalenTigh
The SMU death penalty affected more schools then just SMU. It was one of the factors that eventually led to the end of the SWC. The former SWC schools left out of the Big 12 (and SEC), all suffered a hit in prestige that they really have not come back from. Houston, Rice, (TCU untill recently).
To some degree yes but the same issues they lead to the scandal would would still be a problem(How do we compete every year with bigger schools).

Houston has stadium issues. Only 32,000 seats.
Rice has enrollment issues. Under 5,000 undergrad.
TCU has enrollment issues. Under 10,000 undergrad.
SMU has stadium and enrollment issues. Only 32,000 seats & under 10,000 undergrad.
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:53 AM   #26
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Re: Real life NCAA ?: Do programs ever go from high prestige to very low prestige?

Nebraska, just 15 years ago tthey were unstoppable. Now they aren't even a pre-season top 25 team. I would say they are about a 3* program now.

USC was pretty mediocre in the 1990's as was Ohio State.

Northwestern rose up and won 2 B10 titles in the 1990's and then went back to obscurity.

Wisconsin pulled off the same feat and had a Heisman winner.

Alabama had a pretty rough drought. Michigan appears to be on the slippery slope to losing its mystique as well.

Basically, your top traditional programs will ebb and flow from 4 to 6* and back again. Notre Dame, USC, Penn State, ALabam, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc. will most likely not ever be wiped out down to 3* or below because they have the fan support and facilities and alumni relations and conference affiliation and scheduling preferences that will make it attractive to recruits.

Non-traditional potential powers like Oregon, Ole Miss, Wake Forrest, Texas Tech, etc. can raise their prestige, but its usally short lived and tends to fluctuate faster.

Then you have teams like Utah and Boise and MAC schools who regardless of what they do, will never be a 6* program. They just won't ever get the marquis recruits on a regular basis if at all and the schools don't have the resources to attract the cream of the crop.

But yes, You can see many examples of teams like Washington and Colorado who have had championships and great pros go through the schools become almost irrelevant on the national scene.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:34 PM   #27
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Re: Real life NCAA ?: Do programs ever go from high prestige to very low prestige?

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Originally Posted by bufordbuckeye
They definitely do go up an down in real life, but not as quickly the game does it. Teams go through bad stretches at times but that won't immediately effect team prestige and teams that do well for a while will be a little higher prestige.

Michigan is still a top tier program (5-6*) even though they have been bad for a couple of years but it would take about 4 or 5 more years of being bad before they really took a hit on their prestige.

Notre Dame is still considered to be a fairly prestigious program. Although I think they are starting to get a little tarnish on their golden helmets Prestige has a lot to do with a programs history.

It really takes something like the SMU scandal or decades of mediocrity like Army to fall by the way. In the game you have one bad season and you start losing prestige. In reality it will take a few in a row for that to happen.
Your an idiot. These are Michigans records from 2005 until present(You said a couple of years.): 7-5, 11-2, 9-4, 3-9(first year of the RR era, did not have the players to fit the system). I hardly consider that bad. 2005 was not that good, and it should have been better. 2006 was, in a word, dominance. 2007 was very good after the 2 losses in the beginning of the year. 2008 was ****ty, but RR did not have the players, depth to fit his system. And the players were just learning the new S&C program. This year should be much, much better. You tell me, is that bad?
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:35 PM   #28
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Re: Real life NCAA ?: Do programs ever go from high prestige to very low prestige?

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You can go all the way back to the 19th century where Yale and Harvard and Princeton were the football powerhouses and now they aren't even like 1 star.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:38 PM   #29
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Re: Real life NCAA ?: Do programs ever go from high prestige to very low prestige?

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Originally Posted by yankeesgiants
Those schools still get top recruits so they havent fallen of that much. Those schools suffered coaching changes that didnt workout.
I think your being a bit too unfair on Michigan. RR has only been there for 1 year. And his system is drastically different from the pro style offense. Last season, he did not have the players to fit the system. This season he has the players, and the returning players know the offense much better now and the defense should be much much better. So this season should be different. I see no reason why Michigan cant win 6 to 8 games this year.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:17 PM   #30
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Re: Real life NCAA ?: Do programs ever go from high prestige to very low prestige?

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Originally Posted by yanks26ngoin
I think your being a bit too unfair on Michigan. RR has only been there for 1 year. And his system is drastically different from the pro style offense. Last season, he did not have the players to fit the system. This season he has the players, and the returning players know the offense much better now and the defense should be much much better. So this season should be different. I see no reason why Michigan cant win 6 to 8 games this year.
Paul Johnson did not have "his" players at Georgia Tech when he went there, yet I do not recall them going through growing pains like RR is. Michigan was and is loaded with athletic talent, if RR could not figure out which player would fit better here and there in his system (like Johnson easily did), then that's just bad coaching.

He got lucky for a few years finding some hidden gems in recruiting like Slaton, Schmitt, and White, that is his claim to fame. After the ACC gutted the Big East it was not hard for him to dominate with those players. He better pray that Tate Forcier is the next coming of Eric Crouch or else he is gonna be out on the street within a year or two.
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:10 PM   #31
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Re: Real life NCAA ?: Do programs ever go from high prestige to very low prestige?

I'm not a Michigan fan (or a Big 10 fan for that matter) but I still think Michigan is one of the most prestigious programs in the nation. It's one of those schools that really has to have a long drought for anything serious to happen to them. A few down years won't hurt them too much.
One school that has definitely fallen off in the past 10 years is Miami. They used to be easily a 6 star program. Now they are probably a 4. They still get some very good recruits, but they are nothing like they used to be when they repeatedly had multiple guys going in the first round of the NFL draft every year.
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Old 08-23-2009, 05:28 PM   #32
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Re: Real life NCAA ?: Do programs ever go from high prestige to very low prestige?

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Originally Posted by DOSMedia4SC
Even schools like USC go threw bad times. Look at Notre Dame. They have been awful in recent years.
Hell SC was pretty much mediocre from the late 80s up until the Pete Carroll era started in 01.
Tons of teams jump up and down. Look at Washington state. They are now the worst team in the pac 10 (yes UW is 5 times better even though they lost in the apple cup last year), but it was only 5 years ago Washington State was a top 10 team and in contention of winning the pac 10. They won it in 02. Brings up another great example, Washington. Washington has tons of history and is one of the more prestigious football programs out west, but it just hasnt been there since the 90s.
As for mid majors, look at Fresno. They used to be the ones on the top of everyones BCS buster list and now they are struggling for .500. Teams dont get to the top and stay at the top. Never really happens. Miami is another example. Florida State as well. Miami more so then florida state. Look at Auburn. It wasnt too long ago they went 13-0, and what were they last year? Like 4-8? Its actually hard to argue SEC teams because they automatically get 4 wins a year, so ill shy away from that.
Oh another great example is BYU. They wont a national championship back in the 80s and have never really been close to winning one since. SMU used to be fairly prestigious. I know something went on there, but I dont exactly remember what it was. All I think I remember is that they didnt have a football team for a while.
If you really want to see a stunning fact, go look up how much SMU pays June Jones right now.

This list goes on. Didnt Syracuse used to be a good team? I remember reading somewhere they went like 11-1 in 91.
I agree. Even some of the most prominent programs hit a wall. You mentioned ND, USC and now look at Michigan and Nebraska (although they are on the rebound).

When I was young, I would have been shocked to see Utah, Boise State, Fresno State, etc. ranked ahead of Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, Florida State and Miami. The college game has changed a ton, especially since scholarships have been limited to 85.
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