Community Day Event

[GoToledo]

Fantastic insight, Watcher. It is very interesting to hear what went on at Madden's community day last year.

[Crimsontide27]

Thank you for your response Watcher. Instead of making another wall of text to read, I can summarize my question pretty quick.

If there is a purpose to live interaction etc and from your point of view, the community days do indeed accomplish things.....why is it that EACH and EVERY year we have the same problems that were brought up during previous QnA sessions, community days, live interactions etc?

We have had the same major issues present in every iteration of this generation of Madden and NCAA. Not only are the same major complaints never addressed, there always seems to be at least 1 more major issue added that needs corrected and patched.

You mention by fixing some things, it can cause others to break and I understand that. However, if after 5 years of developing a next gen title you still cant figure out to fix it, then its time to start finding people that can.

It would seem to me the same idea as me entering a dunk contest. I cant dunk...no matter how long I stand on the court and stand there staring at the rim, Im not gonna be able to throw the ball down through the hoop. No matter how many different set of eyes see the programming problems, if the devs cant fix it, then its time to go a different direction. They have been standing on the court looking at these major issues for 5 years and are still just as close to fixing the glaring problems in their football titles as I am dunking a basketball.

[bigmike20000]

tweeted by shopmaster a few hours ago "Talking with Dale Stump the Sound Designer for NCAA Football 11. Get your subwoofers ready for the experience of a true college experience." for what its worth

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by Crimsontide27

Thank you for your response Watcher. Instead of making another wall of text to read, I can summarize my question pretty quick. If there is a purpose to live interaction etc and from your point of view, the community days do indeed accomplish things.....why is it that EACH and EVERY year we have the same problems that were brought up during previous QnA sessions, community days, live interactions etc? We have had the same major issues present in every iteration of this generation of Madden and NCAA. Not only are the same major complaints never addressed, there always seems to be at least 1 more major issue added that needs corrected and patched. You mention by fixing some things, it can cause others to break and I understand that. However, if after 5 years of developing a next gen title you still cant figure out to fix it, then its time to start finding people that can. It would seem to me the same idea as me entering a dunk contest. I cant dunk...no matter how long I stand on the court and stand there staring at the rim, Im not gonna be able to throw the ball down through the hoop. No matter how many different set of eyes see the programming problems, if the devs cant fix it, then its time to go a different direction. They have been standing on the court looking at these major issues for 5 years and are still just as close to fixing the glaring problems in their football titles as I am dunking a basketball.

Some of the reasons specific issues may not get fixed are that:

1. The specific fix may break other parts of the game, and a team hasn't figured out yet how to get around that.

2. The fix may be able to work without breaking other parts, but it'll take too long from a development time standpoint, so it doesn't fit into a specific teams development philosophy.

3. A team may lack the talent to fix the issue properly.

4. A team may lack the personnel needed to tackle the issue.

5. None of the above may be the problem. Instead, a specific team has not deemed the issue serious enough--after weighing it against other issues--and is indifferent to the issue.

I'm not saying anyone at EA falls into these, I'm just saying that these scenarios often apply in any field of product development.

[LoostheMoos]

Quote: Originally Posted by Crimsontide27

If there is a purpose to live interaction etc and from your point of view, the community days do indeed accomplish things.....why is it that EACH and EVERY year we have the same problems that were brought up during previous QnA sessions, community days, live interactions etc? We have had the same major issues present in every iteration of this generation of Madden and NCAA. Not only are the same major complaints never addressed, there always seems to be at least 1 more major issue added that needs corrected and patched. You mention by fixing some things, it can cause others to break and I understand that. However, if after 5 years of developing a next gen title you still cant figure out to fix it, then its time to start finding people that can.

Yes, those same issue HAVE been mentioned year after year after year; but here is the very sad truth: Guys on sites like OS, discussing Madden 11 and getting hyped up for the next release or angry about previous year's shortcomings represent a VERY SMALL percentage of the overall Madden buying audience.

You are talking about at most 10% of the total install base each year and this is a game that sells in the millions annually (Let's just say 5,000,000 across all platforms) - and sadly as large as OS is, there are not 500,000 people checking out these threads! While we here and at other Internet communities want very specific changes to certain things, even in this protective bubble we can't agree amongst ourselves as to what is most important - witness the annual threads / flame wars discussing equipment and shoes and towels and presentation versus the replies that howl to fix the damn game before the bells and whistles are addressed.

When the Community Days are held and the feedback is taken I believe that EA wants to try to serve two opposing masters - the casual 90% of their customers - who buy Madden and play it from August to November and then get lost in the annual rush of Holiday season games - and the 10%'ers like this audience and others like it that want something much deeper and much more satisfying for the months after November and up to the next August.

These are opposing forces and we lack the numbers to get final say. Community days are an effort to soothe these sites and to gather feedback that is considered (and if it is economical and beneficial and in line with the overall marketing plan) and MAY get included at some point in the future. But when a game sells millions of copies year after year, the financial motivation to add a ton of programmers, break the code in untold hundreds of ways and risk the entire product launch is simply not there.

The devs want to try. The hard-core audience wants to play and wants to help. But in the end, the bean-counters and the suits rule the day and sign the checks and set the calenders. If an addition is causing problems that jeopardize the annual release date, it is going to be cut - and if the problem is significant enough that it would continue to break the game unless the overall package was revamped into something nearly unrecognizable in comparison to the previous year (or years), then you can rest assured it is not going to happen.

[p_rushing]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Some of the reasons specific issues may not get fixed are that: 1. The specific fix may break other parts of the game, and a team hasn't figured out yet how to get around that. 2. The fix may be able to work without breaking other parts, but it'll take too long from a development time standpoint, so it doesn't fit into a specific teams development philosophy. I'm not saying anyone at EA falls into these, I'm just saying that these scenarios often apply in any field of product development.

1 & 2 are the main problems. It's not a perfect world with unlimited time to code the game. They also are working from previous code and they may have not even written it or know who did. There were probably mistakes taken when rewriting the code for the 360 and they are paying for it every year. There are standards for writing code, but some times the developer thinks they have a better way, without thinking of all possible issues, stuff happens later. Some times you just don't have time to do it the right way and have to do it the fastest way. Then there are times when the standards just don't work in practice. All of that adds up to a big mess when trying to fix issues.

Now EA is still to blame for all these issues. They could fix the issues by rewriting all the pieces of the code that need it and testing all the changes, but that would require having a larger team and them losing profit margin. At this point, I don't see it happening. They probably only have a few more releases before the new version of consoles drop, so they don't want to take the hit now and again then to rebuild it. They will continue to fix what they can within the current code base.

[Cdenz]

all I can say they need the stuff fixed, yes I understand that fixing something may break something else, but hey the big Whigs at EA wanted the license to be theirs, so they brought this all on the dev's....sorry but stuff that is broke needs to be fixed. Most of all this stuff could be fixed with better leadership ,(which from reading the current gameinformer you can see it goes all the way to the top CEO) trust me I know, my department is cleaning up a mess started by our parnet company using a program that runs on thier AS400. It's a mess they know its a mess and now people in my department is having to fix it.

[RGiles36]

A couple days late...but good stuff Watcher...sounds like you've covered the bases.