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Have you started your Dynasty or are you holding out for a progression fix?

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Old 07-21-2010, 04:02 PM   #57
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Re: Have you started your Dynasty or are you holding out for a progression fix?

I'll just say this, I'm in my 4th year of my dynasty, i started as SMU for 3 years, then moved to South Carolina. The first year of my dynasty was probably the best ever, i went 7-5, but it was a ton of fun. Now I'm #1 12-0 currently, getting ready to play Alabama in the SEC title.

I've noticed a significant difference in gameplay, this past season just felt like garbage. I was able to rack up insane rushing yards, while every team i played against was able to rack up huge passing yards, the first few years actually played well, while very game this season was a shootout. It just feels weak, it's hard to describe, but it's a noticeable difference in game play.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:06 PM   #58
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Re: Have you started your Dynasty or are you holding out for a progression fix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_457
I'll just say this, I'm in my 4th year of my dynasty, i started as SMU for 3 years, then moved to South Carolina. The first year of my dynasty was probably the best ever, i went 7-5, but it was a ton of fun. Now I'm #1 12-0 currently, getting ready to play Alabama in the SEC title.

I've noticed a significant difference in gameplay, this past season just felt like garbage. I was able to rack up insane rushing yards, while every team i played against was able to rack up huge passing yards, the first few years actually played well, while very game this season was a shootout. It just feels weak, it's hard to describe, but it's a noticeable difference in game play.
How can teams rack up insane passing yards if CPU QBs have such bad awareness, which is what has been the biggest complaint in this thread.

And the fact that you changed teams kind of throws a wrench into the whole thing as far as being a true experiment goes. Not to mention, in year 4, about a forth of the players are still from EA's original rosters...

But if you just switched to South Carolina, it's impossible for you to tell whether Steve Spurrier just wasn't recruiting any good DBs or what.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:11 PM   #59
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Re: Have you started your Dynasty or are you holding out for a progression fix?

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Originally Posted by choadler
I just don't understand how the progressoin in 2004 was done so much better than 2010.
More than likely it's because EA is constantly making little tweaks that have huge and unforeseen (by them) ripple effects. They get feedback that progression is over the top and after a few years in dynasty, all the teams are A+ caliber. So they scale things back. Recruits come in rated a little lower in key categories, dropping their OVR rating of course, and the amounts they can increase are reduced. This tests out as fixing the issue. But they don't have multiple testers sit down and play 10 years in a dynasty to see the long-term effects. And ideas that sound good on paper (freshman have low awareness - as most new freshman would) end up playing out badly when combined with their other changes (if individual ratings increase only a little bit, low awareness as a freshman means low awareness forever).

From personal experience, I know the drill: they encounter a problem, they assign a developer to do something about it, and it gets done. But there's not a lot of flowthrough testing to see how it affects everything else. Especially with the economy like it is, and EA having some lean-ish times recently, they probably don't hire many testers and therefore they don't perform due diligence to see how every change they make will impact the rest of the program. Users are their testers. And issues don't get fixed (or broken in a different way) until the next iteration of the software.

If they really want to solve this thing, they probably need to stop guessing at the starting ratings for recruits and advancement potential for players, and program both things to work off of the mathematical mean. Use the starting roster as a baseline: you can calculate the mean ability for each class (freshman, sophomore, etc.) and caliber of player from that. And then make sure that incoming recruits roughly match the existing mean, and that advancement points are doled out such that each year the classes conform to previous averages. So standard advancement isn't an arbitrary number like 2 or 3, it's just whatever makes the new seniors resemble last year's seniors, and on down the line. And awareness for incoming recruits isn't "50," it's the average awareness for default roster freshmen. Until they do something like this, or get really lucky with their existing model, long-term dynasty players won't be satisfied.

Luckily for me, I seldom play a dynasty past 4 years anyway.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:24 PM   #60
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Re: Have you started your Dynasty or are you holding out for a progression fix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogo27
How can teams rack up insane passing yards if CPU QBs have such bad awareness, which is what has been the biggest complaint in this thread.

And the fact that you changed teams kind of throws a wrench into the whole thing as far as being a true experiment goes. Not to mention, in year 4, about a forth of the players are still from EA's original rosters...

But if you just switched to South Carolina, it's impossible for you to tell whether Steve Spurrier just wasn't recruiting any good DBs or what.
Their QB's racked up so many yards because my DB's and LB's were almost all underclassmen, My highest rated MLB is 55, i don't have a DB in the 70's and At this point the low AWR for QB's doesn't come into play, because as you said, there are still original players, a lot of them starting QB's, including my own.

This is one of the problems, the first few years are practically throwaways because when the new recruits match up with the old recruits, it gets ugly, which is basically what's been happening. I have upperclassmen on offense, which means i can match up with most teams, but my D is almost entirely made up of the new recruits, which causes big problems considering even my juniors are horrible in comparison.

I suppose there is still hope that by year 6 things will work out, because of the flushing out of EA's roster. But why should you have to dredge through 5 seasons just to get something reasonable.

What i'm saying is that i've noticed a difference in gameplay, but it's just my personal experience.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:24 PM   #61
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Re: Have you started your Dynasty or are you holding out for a progression fix?

I tried some of the suggestions by Versuz2 for sliders, and I'm seeing a whole new game than before. The biggest change is playing on Heisman. That really put me on Pause, because of past years CPU cheating on this level, but the game is totally different with his suggestions, granted had to lower tackle rating to 35 instead of 75 to really see animations come to life.

As far as my testing about the 0 awareness in dynasty play, it will take a day or two more because I want to see what happens (esp with new sliders) on the field in actual gameplay vs simming. What I have noticed is this:

There is a greater increase to QB OVR by increasing Throw Power and/or Throw Accuracy while increased AWR increases little compared to the past. Dev's need to clarify how they have defined AWR within the new programming.

Throw PWR affects sacks because it determines how fast his throwing motion/release will be during pass, that's why many QB recruits have 70'ish Throw PWR and few come in in the 90's. It determines how fast/distance the ball will travel as well as the speed of his throwing motion to prevent sacks. I believe this is their way of dealing with the Robo-QB issue from last year.

Also, the main issue I see with the low OVR/AWR issue is that folks fail to distinguish between athletic abilities and understanding of the game/playbook at the college level. Fr have no understanding of the game and new playbook that's presented before them. Sure some/few, are able to get by on athletic ability and simplified playbooks, but eventually defensive schemes will negate that ability if he doesn't grow in understanding the game. So Fr having low AWR is right in line with what is real life. We being asking for "Realistic", now it seems like folks would rather go back to more arcade style because it doesn't make sense to us.

There is a hidden potential rating that we can't see (which every college coach gambles on being right at), but I guess folks will be aking for this rating to be seen real soon, taking away an aspect of being a coach in the game.

Lastly, I don't know how folks can become such experts in such a short time frame (7-10 days) that we can say "this or that" is broken and needs to be fixed/patched. There will never be a perfect sports game because there are so many interpretations about what is "Realistic" and I'm still tweaking and adjusting to what "I" think is realistic after 7 days. So to see a statement that Progression is broke after only 7 days, just blows my mind.

I would say try Versuz2 suggestions as a foundation and tweak from there. I believe you'll find the game fun/challenging contrary to the issues your having with low AWR and Progression.

Oh well, good luck in waiting for a Progression fix. I doubt they change anything after being "Shanked" a thousand times about this issue being at the other end of the spectrum last year.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:35 PM   #62
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Re: Have you started your Dynasty or are you holding out for a progression fix?

This should be easy to document if it's really a problem or not. Somebody should do a random sampling of awareness ratings from the default roster for freshmen and seniors, then sim a few years, do the same random sampling, and see how it ends up. Probably the best would be:

Sample freshman and seniors on the default roster - GROUP 1F & 1S
Sim three years (to get the default freshman upgraded to seniors)
Sample again in the same quantity (thinking at least 100 random players from assorted teams) - GROUP 2F & 2S
Sim one more year
Sample one last time, this time just the seniors (to get CPU-generated recruits as seniors) - GROUP 3S

Calculate averages and voila. If there's a drop of more than 5-6 points between any two continuous groups (meaning 1F to 2F, 1S to 2S, or 2S to 3S), that's a significant issue.

If no one else does this I'd be willing to try it. It's a fair amount of work but it would give us some real insight into the game, rather than just impressions.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:40 PM   #63
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Re: Have you started your Dynasty or are you holding out for a progression fix?

Everyone has their own opinion and everyone has a way they want it. The only real solution would be dynasty sliders for recruit calibers and progressions.

Personally I think overall the recruits are only about 5 pts lower than what they should be.

Using this scale heres where I think recruits should fall for the most part.
90s-studs most of the guys who get drafted on the first day
80s-low 80s are your solid players at high majors while high 80s are borderline pro prospects. Low 80s are elite at smaller schools.
70s-range from your solid starters at 2-3 star schools to young players at top schools
60s-Range from projects at 2-3 star schools to starters at small schools.

5 stars for the most part should not be starter quality as freshman. At most big schools freshman rarely start but at 3 star schools they often do.
I think 5 stars should be in the 70s with the occasional 80.

4 stars rarely start as freshman even at 3 star schools. They can make an impact as sophmores and crack the rotation as freshman.
So mid-low 70s sounds about right.

3 stars never start as freshman except for the rare 1:40 hidden gem or when a team is desperate. Usually they make an impact after a couple seasons.
60s to an occasional low 70 seems about right.

If you want to argue progression fine. I havent seen enought to see how the rosters end up. But to me the recruits are only around 5 pts too low and I cant gripe too much over 5 pts.

To me the biggest problem is the lower rated schools players dont progress as much so they are hopeless. And alot of people like to use the smaller schools.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:47 PM   #64
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Re: Have you started your Dynasty or are you holding out for a progression fix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_457
Their QB's racked up so many yards because my DB's and LB's were almost all underclassmen, My highest rated MLB is 55, i don't have a DB in the 70's and At this point the low AWR for QB's doesn't come into play, because as you said, there are still original players, a lot of them starting QB's, including my own.

This is one of the problems, the first few years are practically throwaways because when the new recruits match up with the old recruits, it gets ugly, which is basically what's been happening. I have upperclassmen on offense, which means i can match up with most teams, but my D is almost entirely made up of the new recruits, which causes big problems considering even my juniors are horrible in comparison.

I suppose there is still hope that by year 6 things will work out, because of the flushing out of EA's roster. But why should you have to dredge through 5 seasons just to get something reasonable.

What i'm saying is that i've noticed a difference in gameplay, but it's just my personal experience.
I assume when you say your MLB is 55 you mean awareness? And you Dont have DB in the 70s I assume that also mean awareness?
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