Tampa 2

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

And isn't the ILB usually in more of a sprint down the field rather than a backpedal?

It depends on the what happens with the outside receivers, but yes, if #1 and #2 both go vertical, then the ILB will try to get under #2.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

How complicated are the "Cover 2" schems in the NFL? I think the casual fan thinks that the '02 Bucs just called Cover 2 every play and just had good players. How many variations are there (just zone, not Man 2)? I've seen the CBs drop deep and Safeties drop down, I've seen teams slide their OLBs out to be the flat defenders.

Your describing what is usually referred to as "quarters" or "2-High Robber."

To answer your original question, its a boat load. There are all kinds of ways to play zone defense and not all kinds of "cover 2" are the same. In reality, the so-called "tampa 2" really isn't cover 2 all the time, it turns in to a 3 deep zone defense vs multiple vertical stems to the same side. To really simplify things, it basically comes down to how the defense is going to try and defend 2 vertical routes to the same side. You can't just squat your corner and have your safety be responsible for half the width of the field, especially in the league, because the safety can't cover that type of ground. So the variations come into play in how different teams try to take care of the 2 vertical receivers. Some will pattern read their corner off #2, so that if he goes vertical, than the corner will lock on to #1 and the defense becomes a quarters variation. Others will have the OLB wall off and carry #2 if he goes vertical and let the safety run over the top to #1 and keep the corner squatted. The tampa variation has the ILB responsible for getting to the seam route by #2 with the safety over the top and the corner and OLB staying put. That is, in essence the major variations, but there is certainly more to it than just that.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by BROman

yep, va tech drops their cbs deep-inverted 2, they also play safety deep/corner down on one side and corner deep/safety down on the other, and will roll the olb up to the short side w/ the corner deep w/ safety deep/corner down to the other side as well. they've even dropped the end in to the flat w/ the corner overtop. there are a crapload of cover 2 defenses and video games haven't even come close to replicating them, but they've have to get the actual scheme right 1st and stop leaveing that huuuuge gap b/w corner and safety.

From my experience, VA Tech mostly plays robber-type coverages now days out of a 2 high look. For years, they made a living with their 8 man fronts with the FS robbing the TE or #2 receiver or playing man-free blitzes. However, it seems like the last handful of years, they are showing more 2-high stuff and double-robbing (quarters coverage), though they will also play quarter-quarter-half (what you described as their boundary defense) which has quarter's principles to the field and squat-half (cover 2) principles to the boundary. In the NFL, you will normally see this determined by formation since the hashmarks are so much more narrow.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

From my experience, VA Tech mostly plays robber-type coverages now days out of a 2 high look. For years, they made a living with their 8 man fronts with the FS robbing the TE or #2 receiver or playing man-free blitzes. However, it seems like the last handful of years, they are showing more 2-high stuff and double-robbing (quarters coverage), though they will also play quarter-quarter-half (what you described as their boundary defense) which has quarter's principles to the field and squat-half (cover 2) principles to the boundary. In the NFL, you will normally see this determined by formation since the hashmarks are so much more narrow.

True quarters and quarter-quarter-half need to be implemented into the games. Defense is so blah with the same exact plays every single year for every single team.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

True quarters and quarter-quarter-half need to be implemented into the games. Defense is so blah with the same exact plays every single year for every single team.

Since quarter's coverage is the most common coverage in football, I'd agree that it needs to be implemented. The problem is, how to program it so the safety will come up and play force vs the run, but still carry #2 vertical vs the pass, but rob #1 if #2 does not go vertical.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

Since quarter's coverage is the most common coverage in football, I'd agree that it needs to be implemented. The problem is, how to program it so the safety will come up and play force vs the run, but still carry #2 vertical vs the pass, but rob #1 if #2 does not go vertical.

Yeah, programming would be difficult, just like it would be with run fits.

You think we could get a list together of coverages and presnap movements that could actually be programmed? I just want the CPU defenses to feel different. I want to see teams bring an extra safety into the box, Double A Gap blitzes and fake blitzes, etc etc.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

Yeah, programming would be difficult, just like it would be with run fits. You think we could get a list together of coverages and presnap movements that could actually be programmed? I just want the CPU defenses to feel different. I want to see teams bring an extra safety into the box, Double A Gap blitzes and fake blitzes, etc etc.

I don't know why run fits would be that hard. In a 1-gap control defense, the linemen are obviously responisble for the gap they're in (unless they're stunting) and the LB's should run through open windows. They would have to program who the force player is, but there's only 4 possibilities (corner, safety, backer or end) and that's determined by the coverage. Double A-gap dogs would be nice, but really, they are overated do the knuckle-head sportscasters. Every team has some sort of protection check for what to do vs. that look, or at least every team should, from pee-wee on up. I'm not saying that they never work, but the frequency on how often the get home isn't very high.

[Palo20]

How would two gap be implemented? What about teams that do both?

I am envisioning a defensive play call that you can determine the pre snap look.

1. Pick defensive formation and play (4-3 Cover 3)

2. Pick pre snap look:

8 in Box
Single High ( Really Deep)
Show A Gap Blitz
Show B Gap
2 High
Then the many other looks that can be presented


While the basic coverages would be the same, the looks would always change and bring so much variety to every game.

For Madden, Have the Eagles, Giants, Rams and others have a tendency for Showing A Gap.

Have the Cover 2 teams show 2 high, have the Pats, Ravens and other teams use their single high looks, etc.