Has anyone been able to get a spread option team rolling

[silkysmooth]

I've played a few more games and cranked up the run sliders for human and have had a little more success, but not enough to justify running an offense out of it. Teams run it IRL because it's hard to stop. If teams IRL averaged 3.0 YPC against awful teams that are easily outclassed then the spread wouldn't even be used. Sick of seeing perfect defense by the CPU no matter what I do. I even tried to run more dive plays and maybe try to boost my screen/draw game and it's pointless. The read/react ability of CPU defensive players is outstanding to the point where they simply must have a great idea what play I've called.

I had a game where I called all my plays from the same formation. I even tried to stick with a balanced gameplan and on pass plays I had again I'd at least try to target different receivers each time. I even made some bonehead play calls like calling a dive on a passing 3rd down. I can say with a near certainty that the CPU has at the very least a basic idea of what play you are calling. They may not know exactly, but they know enough to come out in the right personnel grouping. When they knew it was run they would come out 4-3. This didn't matter what the down and distance or place on the field. When they were't sure run or pass mostly they came out in the nickel and blitzed one of the LBs a good portion of the time. When they thought pass it was dime and they still blitzed like it was Rex Ryan calling the plays.

Play action didn't work at all. I went back and played Madden 09 with the Colts and just messed around with play action and it felt like I was cheating that the defense bit on the play fake and I actually had time to scan the field and deliver the ball.

The Zone Read play is almost completely broken. If they blitz from the outside on a play where the DE crashes on the HB then it's play over unless you have a super fast HB and even then it's at best a 3 yard gain. On plays where the DE stays home and the CB Blitz beats your WR, it's again probably play over. You may pick up a few decent gains with more consistently than scenario #1 but that again depends on the speed rating of your HB and the positioning of the defense pre-snap. If they blitz heavily with safeties or linebackers, it's again basically game over unless you are running out of a double TE set and all seven men on the line get good blocks. Lateral speed and pursuit by the CPU defense seems to be cranked up to an almost impossible level. The main problem is that the rest of the defense knows instantly where the ball is. There is no faking them out like there is in real life. It's the main flaw with the option game in general and not just specific to the zone read play.

Run blocking is atrocious. I've seen more plays the past few days where your offensive line chip blocks defensive lineman and moves on to the next level while your ball carrier just gets annihilated in the backfield. It's most blatant on play action passing where they chip and stand there while the defensive line chases your QB. Pass blocking is also awful when you have guys get in the backfield unblocked and yet your line is pulling a West Virginia and just hovering at the line of scrimmage doing nothing. I used Michigan and bumped up Denard Robinson's speed and acceleration mostly to get the offense down pat so maybe I scramble more than the average QB is able to. Nine times out of ten if I get pressure and scramble the offensive line gives up on the play and I have to move around the pocket and buy time myself.

I really love this game and have had a lot of fun playing this game, but the downright lazy programming and AI choices have come pretty close to ruining it. They need to make things like a defensive players awareness matter when defending the option. Stupid players should make stupid plays, not be clairvoyant as to the whereabouts of the football. Blocking needs to be fixed as well. If there isn't a guy clearly in front of an offensive lineman to block he just does nothing. If the defense rushes 3, that means at least two of my lineman are going to stand around. A simple gameplan switch of being able to select what defensive lineman my o-line doubles on a given play shouldn't be that hard to add.

[bry422]

Quote: Originally Posted by silkysmooth

I've played a few more games and cranked up the run sliders for human and have had a little more success, but not enough to justify running an offense out of it. Teams run it IRL because it's hard to stop. If teams IRL averaged 3.0 YPC against awful teams that are easily outclassed then the spread wouldn't even be used. Sick of seeing perfect defense by the CPU no matter what I do. I even tried to run more dive plays and maybe try to boost my screen/draw game and it's pointless. The read/react ability of CPU defensive players is outstanding to the point where they simply must have a great idea what play I've called. I had a game where I called all my plays from the same formation. I even tried to stick with a balanced gameplan and on pass plays I had again I'd at least try to target different receivers each time. I even made some bonehead play calls like calling a dive on a passing 3rd down. I can say with a near certainty that the CPU has at the very least a basic idea of what play you are calling. They may not know exactly, but they know enough to come out in the right personnel grouping. When they knew it was run they would come out 4-3. This didn't matter what the down and distance or place on the field. When they were't sure run or pass mostly they came out in the nickel and blitzed one of the LBs a good portion of the time. When they thought pass it was dime and they still blitzed like it was Rex Ryan calling the plays. Play action didn't work at all. I went back and played Madden 09 with the Colts and just messed around with play action and it felt like I was cheating that the defense bit on the play fake and I actually had time to scan the field and deliver the ball. The Zone Read play is almost completely broken. If they blitz from the outside on a play where the DE crashes on the HB then it's play over unless you have a super fast HB and even then it's at best a 3 yard gain. On plays where the DE stays home and the CB Blitz beats your WR, it's again probably play over. You may pick up a few decent gains with more consistently than scenario #1 but that again depends on the speed rating of your HB and the positioning of the defense pre-snap. If they blitz heavily with safeties or linebackers, it's again basically game over unless you are running out of a double TE set and all seven men on the line get good blocks. Lateral speed and pursuit by the CPU defense seems to be cranked up to an almost impossible level. The main problem is that the rest of the defense knows instantly where the ball is. There is no faking them out like there is in real life. It's the main flaw with the option game in general and not just specific to the zone read play. Run blocking is atrocious. I've seen more plays the past few days where your offensive line chip blocks defensive lineman and moves on to the next level while your ball carrier just gets annihilated in the backfield. It's most blatant on play action passing where they chip and stand there while the defensive line chases your QB. Pass blocking is also awful when you have guys get in the backfield unblocked and yet your line is pulling a West Virginia and just hovering at the line of scrimmage doing nothing. I used Michigan and bumped up Denard Robinson's speed and acceleration mostly to get the offense down pat so maybe I scramble more than the average QB is able to. Nine times out of ten if I get pressure and scramble the offensive line gives up on the play and I have to move around the pocket and buy time myself. I really love this game and have had a lot of fun playing this game, but the downright lazy programming and AI choices have come pretty close to ruining it. They need to make things like a defensive players awareness matter when defending the option. Stupid players should make stupid plays, not be clairvoyant as to the whereabouts of the football. Blocking needs to be fixed as well. If there isn't a guy clearly in front of an offensive lineman to block he just does nothing. If the defense rushes 3, that means at least two of my lineman are going to stand around. A simple gameplan switch of being able to select what defensive lineman my o-line doubles on a given play shouldn't be that hard to add.

Everything you said is pretty accurate. Yeah, like others in this thread I can get the zone read/spread option working to a point, but it's WAY more famine than feast for all of the reasons you've pointed out. This is readily apparent on any zone read plays where logic dictates that the QB keep the ball. It's as if he's dragging cement blocks around. I keep screaming at the TV over and over... "Get going already... Move!" It's like being behind a dump truck at a stop light. Takes it forever to get up to speed. I think the blocking is decent, but by the time the QB actually get to the LOS, most defensive lineman have finally "won" their individual battles. I've put my fastest player in at QB and my quickest, too, but neither made little difference.

[rudyjuly2]

Sometimes I wonder if the NCAA team artificially lowers the speed of QBs during gameplay to limit online cheesing. They do seem too slow at times, not nearly as explosive when you watch them in real life.

[jello1717]

Quote: Originally Posted by bry422

Everything you said is pretty accurate. Yeah, like others in this thread I can get the zone read/spread option working to a point, but it's WAY more famine than feast for all of the reasons you've pointed out. This is readily apparent on any zone read plays where logic dictates that the QB keep the ball. It's as if he's dragging cement blocks around. I keep screaming at the TV over and over... "Get going already... Move!" It's like being behind a dump truck at a stop light. Takes it forever to get up to speed. I think the blocking is decent, but by the time the QB actually get to the LOS, most defensive lineman have finally "won" their individual battles. I've put my fastest player in at QB and my quickest, too, but neither made little difference.

What ACC do your QBs have? I haven't used QBs with low ACC, and my guys can get up and go in a hurry. With Robinson and Gardner and their mid -> high 90s ACC, the zone read was crazy. Even now with my recruited 90 ACC guys, they get up and go nicely and get across the line in a hurry. This is on AA with 25 threshold.

[bry422]

Quote: Originally Posted by jello1717

What ACC do your QBs have? I haven't used QBs with low ACC, and my guys can get up and go in a hurry. With Robinson and Gardner and their mid -> high 90s ACC, the zone read was crazy. Even now with my recruited 90 ACC guys, they get up and go nicely and get across the line in a hurry. This is on AA with 25 threshold.

I use Middle Tennessee St. and their QB is Dwight Dasher. I'd have to check to verify, but I believe he is in the mid 80s on SPD and ACC. I play other Sun Belt teams often and playing against weak defenses doesn't help too much. He is still way too slow to the LOS after faking the handoff. It's annoying and there is absolutely no explosion or any resemblance to real life.

[ashamael]

I'm going to also suggest three more things:

1) HB designed runs: use 'em. I have more success against teams when I mix it up a bit by actually using the designed HB runs and then swapping over to the option read plays.

2) If you're making the correct read but other players are blowing up your line, change your gameplan on holding blocks to aggressive for a series or two. I was having a tough time in a game earlier today versus a good defense, thought I'd try this, and it helped. A lot. I was able to stay with the spread and stay run-oriented.

3) Build some momentum... Come out your first series with guns a blazing and move down the field with the passing game. There's no momentum meter, but I can definitely feel a snowball effect. Often times I can't run for crap in the 1st quarter, but after going up by 7 or 10 points, suddenly, I can.

[silkysmooth]

I bumped up Denard to mid 90s SPD and ACC just for practice mode and exhibition mode games to get a feel for things. I personally feel it mirrors real life pretty well because at certain points I was able to just cut through the entire defense on a play where no one was fast enough to get a great angle to make a tackle. It wasn't that I was running a sweep to the weak side when I caught the CPU in man coverage, I was just faster than their players and made the play, which is pretty similar to the reason Denard has been so good. On a permanent level, I upped his passing ratings to make him an 86 overall so I could put him ahead of Forcier on the depth chart and have the CPU actually do it. I've also considered editing Denard into Forcier and Forcier into Denard so that #16 is an impact guy, but I figured that would come soon enough anyway.

I've been working at it still and I can honestly say I could live with brain-dead blocking once in a while if the defensive reaction to option plays was fixed. Athleticism shouldn't be the only indicator of defensive success against deceptive and complex offenses like an option team. On Zone Read plays, you should see LBs pulled in to the middle to stuff the HB sometimes, leaving the QB the outside lane without fear of the uber-pursuit that I've grown accustomed to seeing. If a guy is really athletic but stupid, his athleticism should allow him to make plays that his brain initially forces him to miss. How often do you see LBs or even DBs read a play wrong but their athleticism still allows them to be in the play? And how often do you see that in NCAA 11 other than superhuman DEs and backside pursuit? In a perfect world there would be a happy medium between guys getting beat at the line of scrimmage and making plays and guys making great blocks to seal the edge and getting a 5 yard run.

I feel that 120 ways to win was not a success because I still feel that a running based offense is like the hard mode of this game. I played a few games to start a dynasty with South Carolina using Texas Tech's playbook and I can honestly say the CPU didn't even come close to stopping me. In 4 games Garcia had about 1400 yards passing and 15 TDs and only 3 INTs. I played a new dynasty as GT and in the first four games I still averaged about 260 yards rushing but was 2-2 and was struggling. Even before that dynasty in my preparation, I got blown out by UConn 37-10 because their players seemed to have memorized my offensive playbook. The point is, the CPU makes far fewer adjustments to stopping the pass than they do the run. Those numbers were put up after the first patch/tuner where man coverage still saw you throwing at Charles Woodson and Champ Bailey on every play. They will happily sit in the Nickel on 1st and 10 when I come out with 4 WRs and get torched all the way down field but if I try to run they will have none of it. That point has been beaten to death here numerous times that I've seen.

Fixing the option play and fixing play action plays go hand in hand. The CPU seems to know too well where the ball is, regardless of previous play calling. Just dumb them down a tad. High awareness guys should be the ones who know where the ball is going. Those are high IQ guys or guys with good instincts. A guy who has never seen a triple option offense or even a spread option offense shouldn't be reading/reacting perfectly from the first snap of the first quarter. I think perhaps the awareness rating needs an overhaul. Awareness is pretty much as generic and vague as it gets. Guys are not equally aware across the board for all things. It seems like every defender has a 99 awareness rating when it comes to play recognition. If that gets toned down and defenders actually don't read every play perfectly, it would really open it up as far as play action and option plays are concerned.

[stlducks]

I have been playing with oregon all season and I am just now getting the spread to start working right.
1. Do not use the read option too much, when it works it is awesome but for some reason the hand offs are pretty slow.
2. Run two or three run plays in a row using the hurry up offense and then when safeties move up before you snap it use an audible and send your receivers deep.

I have been doing this and been getting 150+ rush yards with James on about 16-18 carries and about 250+ passing yards a game.