We as a community need to choose a corner

[devinewon]

We as a people love NCAA football or we wouldn't be on these forums. This game took a step up in the form of presentation and the aesthetics of the game. It seemed to be what a lot of people were clamoring for in NCAA 2011 and we got it.

A few things were changed that are mind boggling to me. Like the switch from the 4 play 4 button play-calling to the 3 button 1 play-call very unresponsive play-call system.

Unfortunately wether through patches or tuning updates the gameplay took a hit especially in terms of defense.

A lot of these can not be fixed with sliders because of the wacky nature of the beast.

The Defense is overpowered on some levels. Especially in the passing game.

Man coverage on Non crossing routes

Play Action

LB Jumping

DB's Mirroring WR's

Defenses are weak when it comes to:

Zone coverage

Crossing routes

Containment even if you're running a contain.

Stopping the counter out of ACE

Unfortunately Defenses can no longer disguise there coverage because the passer gets a birds eye view of the field at the snap of the ball and can immediately see who is open.

Because these things happen, people have learned ways to exploit defenses not in a football way but in a video game way.

People are almost forced to run crossing routes every play or 4 verticals further diluting the gameplay.

Now if you try to change the sliders to fix the bad zone coverage what you end up doing is making the man coverage even more overpowered and vice versa.

I was really proud of us as a forum when I saw the 12 commandments of NCAA 2012. They were for the most part gameplay related. What saddens me is when I see people complaining about a wristband or a facemask when there are serious issues that need to be addressed.

So I ask the community to choose a corner this year because the devs can't fix everything. I think even with the new coat of paint that this game took a step back in some regards and though offense is a bit easier to play this year because of how awful the defense is at times I still believe we can't straddle the fence on this gameplay vs. aesthetics conversation.

[Strategy101]

First off, let me make it clear the graphics are ALWAYS second to gameplay in my mind. I'll take a realistic PLAYING game over a realistic looking game any day.

As far as the game play issues... its all about defense.

1) Coverage

A) Zone coverage stinks. The reaction times are absurd. Considering ALL THE GUY IS DOING IS WATCHING THE QB, a defender sometimes acts like he's thinking about what hot cheerleader he's gonna hook up with after the game rather than the pass floating RIGHT BY him to the TE sitting RIGHT NEXT TO HIM. (Sorry for all the caps, but zone coverage pisses me off in NCAA... though its stunk for a few years now)

B) Man coverage is basically about "separation" and only separation. This is not realistic. The "possession" WR or "contested catch" is virtually non-existent. I think hit power and "ball skills" need to come into play more for CB's. Some guys have a hard time sticking with guys but when the ball gets there they destroy the receiver to break up the pass, while other guys can run like the wind and stick to guys like glue but cant swat a ball away if their lives depended on it.

2) Line play

A) Against the run guys dont understand the concept of "gap control" and the idea of "clogging holes" doesnt exist quite as well as it should. There should be more plays where the running back is forced to pause for a split second at the line to WAIT for an opening, rather than either a hole or not. Any NFL/NCAA real life game will show that there are many instances in which a player has NOTHING at the line initially but then something on the backside opens up, or the off tackle play becomes available and the runner bounces it outside.

B) Against the pass is a little less of an issue, however there are not many "scheme pressures" in which certain guys attempt to gain double teams so another rusher can come free. Things like the "stunts" and "twists" are pretty much worthless while they are in reality some of the more effective pressure creators in the NFL/NCAA.


Overall, I think the defense needs the biggest fix. Sure there are many other problems overall, but I think if the defense was corrected it would make for much more interesting play and a lot less "cheap/cheat" feeling issues.

[devinewon]

Quote: Originally Posted by Strategy101

First off, let me make it clear the graphics are ALWAYS second to gameplay in my mind. I'll take a realistic PLAYING game over a realistic looking game any day. As far as the game play issues... its all about defense. 1) Coverage A) Zone coverage stinks. The reaction times are absurd. Considering ALL THE GUY IS DOING IS WATCHING THE QB, a defender sometimes acts like he's thinking about what hot cheerleader he's gonna hook up with after the game rather than the pass floating RIGHT BY him to the TE sitting RIGHT NEXT TO HIM. (Sorry for all the caps, but zone coverage pisses me off in NCAA... though its stunk for a few years now) B) Man coverage is basically about "separation" and only separation. This is not realistic. The "possession" WR or "contested catch" is virtually non-existent. I think hit power and "ball skills" need to come into play more for CB's. Some guys have a hard time sticking with guys but when the ball gets there they destroy the receiver to break up the pass, while other guys can run like the wind and stick to guys like glue but cant swat a ball away if their lives depended on it. 2) Line play A) Against the run guys dont understand the concept of "gap control" and the idea of "clogging holes" doesnt exist quite as well as it should. There should be more plays where the running back is forced to pause for a split second at the line to WAIT for an opening, rather than either a hole or not. Any NFL/NCAA real life game will show that there are many instances in which a player has NOTHING at the line initially but then something on the backside opens up, or the off tackle play becomes available and the runner bounces it outside. B) Against the pass is a little less of an issue, however there are not many "scheme pressures" in which certain guys attempt to gain double teams so another rusher can come free. Things like the "stunts" and "twists" are pretty much worthless while they are in reality some of the more effective pressure creators in the NFL/NCAA. Overall, I think the defense needs the biggest fix. Sure there are many other problems overall, but I think if the defense was corrected it would make for much more interesting play and a lot less "cheap/cheat" feeling issues.

Here Here! Well Said.

[jbrew2411]

I find in this order the importance to me.
1) gameplay
2) depth of modes like dynasty mode
3) graphics

I can deal with a game that may not be as appealing as long as it offers great gameplay and depth. If the game does not play well and offers only short term playability then graphics want matter. The NCAA team should look at NCAA March Madness 10 to see what happens when you make a game with great graphics and presentation but piss poor gameplay and depth does to a game. That may have been the worse game I have ever played but it looked so good.

Any attempt to make NCAA 12 will be wasted if the following are not addressed:
-If all the defense issues are not fixed.
-The lack of dual-threat QB's playing as dual-threats is not addressed.
-Releasing patches on release day that kill key parts of the game like play-action.
-Making sliders have an impact so game can be tuned to fit every gamers style and ability.
-Addressing the recruits who's profile (size) does not match the skill. We have all seen the 6'4" 210lb DE's who play like they are 280lbs and bench 600lbs. Then my favorite is the 5'10" WR with 70's in speed and high 60's in acc and agl. Trust if you are that slow you are not playing FBS football.

All these thing have some form of effect on gameplay and really need to be fixed. I want even go into adding more depth to the game so we have a reason to play the game beyond a few months.

[BooShay]

Thanks new guy for rehashing everything we've been saying

[devinewon]

Quote: Originally Posted by BooShay

Thanks new guy for rehashing everything we've been saying

Been on the forums for a while accidentally deleted my email account
and couldn't retrieve my password. Yet and still I still see people saying that this is the greatest NCAA ever and I still see people asking for superfluous things and we as a community need to stand up and say this is what is really important. The devs do listen to the wish list because when you typed in NCAA 2011 wish list in google it took you to a wish list and they got everything we asked for last year. I don't want to see another request for a nike arm band again.

[jd369]

Considering the graphics people and the gameplay people are 2 entirely different teams, both should be top notch.

[devinewon]

Quote: Originally Posted by jd369

Considering the graphics people and the gameplay people are 2 entirely different teams, both should be top notch.

Thats still money and resources and a feature they can throw on the box. When they put "BANDS IN THE STANDS" on the box as a feature it doesn't flip my proverbial skirt up when I know we still have mirror DB coverage.