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ViLLiO · 06-18-2011, 10:21 AM

Because I still see a lot of suctioning in NCAA 12. The devs claimed it was gone, and the members of OS quickly followed suit, saying it is no more. However, my definition of suctioning might differ from yours. Check out the play at 1:07 and specifically watch the DE.

That is my definition of suction blocking. The DE is attempting to hit the outside on a speed rush, but he is being suctioned into a patty cake animation with the OT, rendering him useless.

Look at the play @ 3:27 for another indicator of how pitiful the pass rush is. Hell, just watch the DE on every single play and see how completely useless they still are. They might as well be covering the flats or spying. The QB could go through his progression seven times with the amount of time he has in the pocket.

People who say that NCAA 12 looks exactly like 11 are inane, but this is one aspect I absolutely agree with. This, and lack of zone defense were what caused me to sell '11, but now that zone is fixed, this problem will stand out even more. No pass rush = blitzing on every play = hardly any defensive scheming. The only time to ever call a true zone D will be inside the 10. Calling it anywhere outside of the 15, and you're going to get burned since the opposing QB will be picking his nose waiting for someone to get open. Thoughts?

cdk10 · 06-18-2011, 10:35 AM

Is suction gone completely no. It has been seriously tweaked though. It's more noticeable in tackling where a guy would start the tackle animation from like 3 or 4 yards away and warp over to the guy to make the tackle. Now it seems that you have to physically touch the player to start the animation. Or WR warping (speed bursting) to a spot to catch the ball.

The DE is not being suctioned into the tackle, that is the animation of the tackle walling off the defender. The problem (IMO) lies in the animation. The DE should not try to engage the tackle but try to get around him or go though him (ie. push him into the QB).

Solidice · 06-18-2011, 10:39 AM

I guess everyone has their own definition, but to me suctioning is when the player initiates an animation before contact is even made(or when catching the ball), visually making the player slide or move into position when he shouldn't from a distance.

On the play you're talking about, the player wasn't slid into position, he made contact, then was 'locked' into position/animation. That is probably more of an animation and/or ratings implementation issue.

blkrptnt819 · 06-18-2011, 10:44 AM

I didn't see any suction either. it looks like contact was made.

ViLLiO · 06-18-2011, 10:57 AM

Man, this game used to be so fun, defensively. Just look at this pressure with a four man rush. And if we ever brought 5-6, we'd get instant pressure. DEs don't get any pressure, now. They just play patty cakes with the OTs.

ViLLiO · 06-18-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdk10


	The DE should not try to engage the tackle but try to get around him or go though him (ie. push him into the QB).

That should depend on his tendencies. If he's an 88 SPD DE, he should absolutely be beating that OT around the edge with rips. But I agree completely with your notion of strongside DEs and their ability to collapse the pocket.

fcboiler87 · 06-18-2011, 12:10 PM

The lack of a pass rush has been an issue in the past, but it's been able to be fixed with sliders. Granted, last year I had to set the HUM pass rush to 100 and the CPU pass block to 0 just to get a realistic pass rush (and vice versa), but with the sliders set like that it did work. It's unfortunate it can't be the way we want it out of the box but at least with some tweaking of the sliders we can fix the problem.

ViLLiO · 06-18-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fcboiler87


	The lack of a pass rush has been an issue in the past, but it's been able to be fixed with sliders. Granted, last year I had to set the HUM pass rush to 100 and the CPU pass block to 0 just to get a realistic pass rush (and vice versa), but with the sliders set like that it did work. It's unfortunate it can't be the way we want it out of the box but at least with some tweaking of the sliders we can fix the problem.

Yeah, that's great and all, but it's completely useless for online only players.

06-18-2011, 10:21 AM	#1
ViLLiO Banned OVR: 13 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Birmingham	What is your definition of suctioning? Because I still see a lot of suctioning in NCAA 12. The devs claimed it was gone, and the members of OS quickly followed suit, saying it is no more. However, my definition of suctioning might differ from yours. Check out the play at 1:07 and specifically watch the DE. That is my definition of suction blocking. The DE is attempting to hit the outside on a speed rush, but he is being suctioned into a patty cake animation with the OT, rendering him useless. Look at the play @ 3:27 for another indicator of how pitiful the pass rush is. Hell, just watch the DE on every single play and see how completely useless they still are. They might as well be covering the flats or spying. The QB could go through his progression seven times with the amount of time he has in the pocket. People who say that NCAA 12 looks exactly like 11 are inane, but this is one aspect I absolutely agree with. This, and lack of zone defense were what caused me to sell '11, but now that zone is fixed, this problem will stand out even more. No pass rush = blitzing on every play = hardly any defensive scheming. The only time to ever call a true zone D will be inside the 10. Calling it anywhere outside of the 15, and you're going to get burned since the opposing QB will be picking his nose waiting for someone to get open. Thoughts?

06-18-2011, 10:35 AM	#2
cdk10 MVP OVR: 15 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Lakeland, FL	Re: What is your definition of suctioning? Is suction gone completely no. It has been seriously tweaked though. It's more noticeable in tackling where a guy would start the tackle animation from like 3 or 4 yards away and warp over to the guy to make the tackle. Now it seems that you have to physically touch the player to start the animation. Or WR warping (speed bursting) to a spot to catch the ball. The DE is not being suctioned into the tackle, that is the animation of the tackle walling off the defender. The problem (IMO) lies in the animation. The DE should not try to engage the tackle but try to get around him or go though him (ie. push him into the QB). Last edited by cdk10; 06-18-2011 at 10:39 AM.

06-18-2011, 10:39 AM	#3
Solidice Guns Up! OVR: 63 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 9,478 Blog Entries: 41	Re: What is your definition of suctioning? I guess everyone has their own definition, but to me suctioning is when the player initiates an animation before contact is even made(or when catching the ball), visually making the player slide or move into position when he shouldn't from a distance. On the play you're talking about, the player wasn't slid into position, he made contact, then was 'locked' into position/animation. That is probably more of an animation and/or ratings implementation issue. __________________ Xbox Live ID: Solidice Steam ID: solidice0 Origin ID: Solidice0 Current Main Rotation: Destiny 2 (XB,PC), Division 2(XB) Baldur Gate 3(XB 4p Co-op run) HellDivers 2 (PC) Games on the list to play: Too many to fit here Last edited by Solidice; 06-18-2011 at 11:10 AM.

06-18-2011, 10:44 AM	#4
blkrptnt819 MVP OVR: 10 Join Date: Feb 2011	Re: What is your definition of suctioning? I didn't see any suction either. it looks like contact was made. osubeavs721 likes this. __________________ CFB: Ohio State, FSU CBB: DUKIE BLUE DEVILS!!!!!!! NBA: Cleveland Cavaliers If you can't tell I LOVE DUKE!!!!!!!!

06-18-2011, 10:57 AM	#5
ViLLiO Banned OVR: 13 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Birmingham	Re: What is your definition of suctioning? Man, this game used to be so fun, defensively. Just look at this pressure with a four man rush. And if we ever brought 5-6, we'd get instant pressure. DEs don't get any pressure, now. They just play patty cakes with the OTs. Last edited by ViLLiO; 06-18-2011 at 11:13 AM.

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06-18-2011, 12:10 PM	#7
fcboiler87 Pro OVR: 5 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Indiana Blog Entries: 1	Re: What is your definition of suctioning? The lack of a pass rush has been an issue in the past, but it's been able to be fixed with sliders. Granted, last year I had to set the HUM pass rush to 100 and the CPU pass block to 0 just to get a realistic pass rush (and vice versa), but with the sliders set like that it did work. It's unfortunate it can't be the way we want it out of the box but at least with some tweaking of the sliders we can fix the problem.

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What is your definition of suctioning?