So Heisman slows my guys down..?

[mrwarre85]

Quote: Originally Posted by KingV2k3

Here's a thread from the NBA2k forum where JW55 makes a discovery re: ratings / levels in THAT title: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...fficients.html Basically, there's a really easy way to check the ratings (during a game) and see that on Pro there's a "tilt" of about 5 to the USER / Neutral on AP / 5 to the CPU on Superstar / 8 on HOF / etc. Is this the sort of thing you're seeing in NCAA? Does the "evidence" exist in the matchup screens alone or elsewhere? Provocative, just still not clear on all the details OP is describing...

Great find. Yeah thats exactly what I'm describing. Only I don't think you can hit pause and go to the depth chart and see the changes. Only in show-matchups.

So in 2k changing diff. gave CPU increased ratings, but so did sliders? Ever think that is what is happening here??... That there is no difference between Heisman and Freshmen except sliders... That every change we make only changes the CPU's ratings..

This would actually kinda make sense. It would be really easy to program. For example, the rush D and pass D sliders would effect awareness, maybe acceleration, definitely tackle, etc. Changing the game up or down one difficulty level would just have a certain stock increase or decrease to all the CPU's abilities. Thoughts?

[KingV2k3]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrwarre85

Great find. Yeah thats exactly what I'm describing. Only I don't think you can hit pause and go to the depth chart and see the changes. Only in show-matchups. So in 2k changing diff. gave CPU increased ratings, but so did sliders? Ever think that is what is happening here??... That there is no difference between Heisman and Freshmen except sliders... That every change we make only changes the CPU's ratings.. This would actually kinda make sense. It would be really easy to program. For example, the rush D and pass D sliders would effect awareness, maybe acceleration, definitely tackle, etc. Changing the game up or down one difficulty level would just have a certain stock increase or decrease to all the CPU's abilities. Thoughts?

In 2k, the point of that thread was to "balance" sliders in light of the "boosts / penalties" that came with the levels...

In NCAA, I think that there may have been a subtle change in programming this year that is leading to a variety of issues...

In Charter04's NCAA slider thread, he states (and I concur) that his slider will play well / similarily on every level:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...n-sliders.html


The only difference is SUPPOSED to be the AI "tilt" (advantage to HUM on Varsity / Even on AP / Advantage CPU on Heisman)...

AI should encompass the "brains" of the game: Playcalls / AWR / Reaction Time / etc.

Those "intangibles" are traditionally tied to level...the "physical" stuff is dealt with in the Thresh / Slider / Penalty / Adjustment sections...

I think the inauguration of "Split Level" options (like Varsity for O while playing D on Heisman,for example), necessitated that the levels adapt to the sliders the same way...

In years past, there wasn't many instances I'm aware of that a slider set built for one level would work on another...

SO:

This is a 15 year old pile of code, layered on over and over again for a couple different system gens that has implemented a new option (those Split Levels) that have probably unleashed some unintended consequences of code...

One of which, you may be on to...



I haven't had the opportunity to play multiple seasons in Dynasty yet, which may or may not reveal what you're seeing...

So far, the level I'm on (Heisman / Heisman) and my slider set are performing as they should (or as close as is possible at this pre patch point), so I will mos def keep and eye out...

Provocative...

[gatorsinRENO]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrwarre85

Yeah I put DPI and OPI at 1. It def. helps, despite what people on here say. It has more of an effect on your CPU players than theirs, though. I know that's weird but that's what I've seen. Also still can't get a real good answer for my first question. Some people say difficulty levels effect gameplay, but don't effect player ratings, i.e., speed. But people in this camp don't seem to be able to then explain exactly how diffuclty ratings effect gameplay. Do they make changes like we make with sliders? Then the other camp just says, yes, heisman and AA make the CPU players better, faster, stronger. This is how EA has chosen to affect gameplay. Or they say it effects ratings and sliders. My experiment (changing diff. levels mid game and hitting show match ups) seemed to suggest that diff. levels DO effect ratings. This is a big no-no for me because even though I want the game to be hard, I don't want everyone running down D Thomas just because the game is on Heisman.

I believe that Heisman makes the CPU harder, Freshman makes it easier, and speed is definitely the reason, but not the main one. It has a lot to do with angles, and that is something that Heisman does a good job of. The only reason that I use Varsity is because Matt10 has shown that the DB glitch rarely appears here, and I don't want to take the alternative and start changing coaching tendencies to get that to work right, I will just tinker with sliders. Before that, I used All-American, and still believe that it is the "truest" gameplay difficulty. If you play it and edit the coaching tendencies, you may not see the DB glitch.

[Oraeon1224]

Several years back (maybe5) an EA programmer commented that the skill levels provide boost to the player statistics or penalties. It would be to complex for EA to programmer better AI (i.e. better coaching and QB decision making). You can test speed of human players and see the penalty. You can also compare receivers to DB this year.

Sliders just apply boost to specific player statistics (like Run defense applies boost or penalties to play recognition). Difficulty applies penalties or boost to all statistics.

[BrockOchoGOAT]

Quote: Originally Posted by KingV2k3

Here's a thread from the NBA2k forum where JW55 makes a discovery re: ratings / levels in THAT title: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...fficients.html Basically, there's a really easy way to check the ratings (during a game) and see that on Pro there's a "tilt" of about 5 to the USER / Neutral on AP / 5 to the CPU on Superstar / 8 on HOF / etc. Is this the sort of thing you're seeing in NCAA? Does the "evidence" exist in the matchup screens alone or elsewhere? Provocative, just still not clear on all the details OP is describing...

Heisman on NCAA is very similar to this. It DOES cjange the speed threshold for you entire team. The ratings do not change as far as the numbers you see, but your players will be slower on Heisman compared to the CPU players, who will be faster.

The other HUGE difference is the AI for the CPU. Specifically, the QB and his awareness. If any WR anywhere on the field gets open, the CPU QB on Heisman is very likely to find him. Compare that to Freshman for example, and the CPU QB is very likely to only lock onto the orange route in the play called.

these are the two main differences and it is what makes Heisman play more idfficult.

[gatorsinRENO]

Quote: Originally Posted by BrockOchoGOAT

Heisman on NCAA is very similar to this. It DOES cjange the speed threshold for you entire team. The ratings do not change as far as the numbers you see, but your players will be slower on Heisman compared to the CPU players, who will be faster. The other HUGE difference is the AI for the CPU. Specifically, the QB and his awareness. If any WR anywhere on the field gets open, the CPU QB on Heisman is very likely to find him. Compare that to Freshman for example, and the CPU QB is very likely to only lock onto the orange route in the play called. these are the two main differences and it is what makes Heisman play more idfficult.

The main reason that I never like playing on Heisman is the game plays so much tighter. That inherently isn't a problem, but when Oregon is leading Ok St 14-10 in the 4th quarter, something is wrong. Maybe we want the game to have more scores like Madden, but I like the fact that we can have blowouts, then close games.

[gatorsinRENO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Oraeon1224

Several years back (maybe5) an EA programmer commented that the skill levels provide boost to the player statistics or penalties. It would be to complex for EA to programmer better AI (i.e. better coaching and QB decision making). You can test speed of human players and see the penalty. You can also compare receivers to DB this year. Sliders just apply boost to specific player statistics (like Run defense applies boost or penalties to play recognition). Difficulty applies penalties or boost to all statistics.

That makes a lot of sense. that would explain why penalty sliders affect gameplay, but not necessarily penalites. the only ones that I see that actually cause penalties to increase are facemasking and roughing the passer. RTP can't be above 55 or it start to affect gameplay with multiple penalties getting called and you have to start declining penalties, but your qb is usually going to get hurt after getting hurt like that. Anyone else share that sentiment?

[gatorsinRENO]

Quote: Originally Posted by CougNation

I don't think that is the case at all. The game is harder on harder levels obviously but I really don't think that it affects your player's ratings at all.

yes, it does. EA didnt program the higher levels to be more difficult, the CPU gets speed boosts and ratings boosts on Heisman, the HUM gets the same on Freshman.