Making It Tougher on the Have Nots

[TheShizNo1]

I'd hate to change Navy's playbook seeing as how this has been their system for well over a decade.

[jbrew2411]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheShizNo1

I'd hate to change Navy's playbook seeing as how this has been their system for well over a decade.

In my 3 yearlong research I found the playbook is not the root of the problem it lies in several areas.
1. Keeping Navy or Army as Independents always equaled a rise to power. By power I mean a top 10 team every year after about year 3.

2. The number of transfers and the quality they pull in. I have seen seasons where they get 6 guys all above a 70 while other smaller schools are getting walk-on type players.

3. With success comes a rise in all the program stars.

4. They retain coaches longer (ie. Navy keeping a coach for 12 seasons). They also pull in the top fired coaches giving them a staff with max or close to maxed skill trees.

5. I have changed Navy's playbook each season to only see the same results.

My fix was to put them in a conference to start with. Reduce the coaching skill tree to include no recruiting points to start.

In doing this I found the rise to be something more of chance then automatic. In all my test after Army was around 4-5 wins with the 1 good year here and there. Navy was a 4-6 win team with the 8-9 win season. The number of transfers was reduced and the quality. They also were pulling in more 3*s then 4&5*s.

[jsr862]

Quote: Originally Posted by jbrew2411

Just my guess here but if you are seeing Texas St, UTSA, and other teams like that becoming powers then look at the coaches they hire. In my past dynasties those places have been stopping points for good HC's that got fired from bigger jobs. They come in with 20-30 skill tree points, way more then some larger school HC's. They get quality transfers and seem to win games. I think it is the nature of the game to see smaller schools rise up while the big boys fall off. As for Navy, Army, and Air Force(never seen them become a force), that is up to you. I for one don't like seeing them pull in 10 five star recruits each season and win title after title each dynasty I play so I limit their coaches from the start and edit down ratings like awareness and play recognition which seems to work without killing them. I still see Navy win 8-9 games a year like they do in real life but not 13 a year for 3 years in a row like I saw in my last test dynasty I did.

You nailed this, I have paid close attention to this as of late as I been starting off with Idaho a lot as an OCC and in the off season I pay attention to the HC where he may go etc. This tells me if I have a free pass to go elsewhere as well or I try to follow the coach as in real life, My HC went to UCLA as an offensive coordinator so I could not follow, and we Hired the Fired HC from a P5 school, that coach came in with a lot of recruiting points available, I left obviously for a better job at USF but watched Idaho as their Win totals went up and up next 3 years until they had another coaching change and hired some sub par DC from a G5 School with most his points allocated to the Coaching side of things

[jbrew2411]

Quote: Originally Posted by jsr862

You nailed this, I have paid close attention to this as of late as I been starting off with Idaho a lot as an OCC and in the off season I pay attention to the HC where he may go etc. This tells me if I have a free pass to go elsewhere as well or I try to follow the coach as in real life, My HC went to UCLA as an offensive coordinator so I could not follow, and we Hired the Fired HC from a P5 school, that coach came in with a lot of recruiting points available, I left obviously for a better job at USF but watched Idaho as their Win totals went up and up next 3 years until they had another coaching change and hired some sub par DC from a G5 School with most his points allocated to the Coaching side of things

Coaching change is something we can't control. We can slow down the progression of coaches but I have never been a fan of anything other then normal.

I kind of like seeing teams rise and fall. In one of my longest running dynasties that I play I have New Mexico as a power. Part of it was my 4 years as the HC but they were on their way when I took over. I moved them to the Big 12 since they had outgrown the MWC. It is cool to add some variety as long as it is more chance then programmed. I think Army and Navy's rise is more programmed then chance.

[FarFromEer]

Anyone ever test the idea of tweaking their history data? What happens if Army has a losing record all time and had never won any national championships. Does that downgrade their program tradition?

[jbrew2411]

Quote: Originally Posted by mcfeenathan

Anyone ever test the idea of tweaking their history data? What happens if Army has a losing record all time and had never won any national championships. Does that downgrade their program tradition?

In my most recent dynasty all 3 academies are 1 stars and bottom feeders. All I did was move Army and Navy into a conference, Air Force has never been a problem for me. If you can prevent them from winning a lot of games early then they will stay around a 1 or 2 star program. For the purpose of the game this is where they need to stay unless you want them as a power.

[vgunn]

Here is how I did it and the results were solid.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...nferences.html


I've decided on making a POWER 4 conference setup. Each of these conferences have sixteen teams and are the only four which have championship games. Aiming for defacto semi-final matchups with the setup.

The four power conferences are: BIG TEN, BIG XII, PAC-12, SEC. The ACC has been relegated to a non-power conference.

Permanent crossover games are in ().

Another goal is to try to keep as many rivalry games intact as possible, as well as a geographic relationship.

Here is what it looks like:

ACC
1 Old Dominion
2 East Carolina
3 Duke
4 Wake Forest
5 UCF
6 USF
7 Charlotte
8 Georgia State
9 Florida Atlantic
10 Florida International

AMERICAN
1 Syracuse
2 Buffalo
3 Boston College
4 UMass
5 UConn
6 Rutgers
7 Army
8 Temple
9 Marshall
10 Navy

BIG TEN
EAST
1 Virginia (Indiana)
2 Virginia Tech (Purdue)
3 Maryland (Illinois)
4 Penn St. (Michigan St.)
5 West Virginia (Kentucky)
6 Pitt (Northwestern)
7 Ohio St. (Michigan)
8 Cincinnati (Louisville)
WEST
9 Louisville
10 Kentucky
11 Michigan
12 Michigan St.
13 Indiana
14 Purdue
15 Illinois
16 Northwestern

BIG XII
NORTH
1 Wisconsin (Texas Tech)
2 Minnesota (TCU)
3 Iowa (Texas)
4 Iowa State (Texas A&M)
5 Kansas (Baylor)
6 Kansas St. (Oklahoma St.)
7 Nebraska (Oklahoma)
8 Missouri (Arkansas)
SOUTH
9 Texas
10 Texas A&M
11 Texas Tech
12 Oklahoma
13 Oklahoma St.
14 Arkansas
15 TCU
16 Baylor

C-USA
1 Tulsa
2 SMU
3 Houston
4 Rice
5 North Texas
6 UTSA
7 Texas State
8 UTEP
9 New Mexico
10 New Mexico St.

Independent
Notre Dame

MAC
1 Toledo
2 Bowling Green
3 Ohio
4 Miami Ohio
5 Kent State
6 Akron
7 Ball State
8 Northern Illinois
9 Western Michigan
10 Eastern Michigan
11 Central Michigan

MWC
1 Air Force
2 Idaho
3 Nevada
4 Utah State
5 UNLV
6 San Jose State
7 Colorado State
8 Fresno State
9 Wyoming

PAC 12
NORTH
1 Washington (Colorado)
2 Washington St. (Boise)
3 Oregon (Arizona)
4 Oregon State (Arizona St.)
5 Stanford (BYU)
6 California (Utah)
7 USC (Hawai'i)
8 UCLA (San Diego State)
SOUTH
9 Arizona
10 Arizona St.
11 BYU
12 Utah
13 Colorado
14 San Diego St.
15 Boise
16 Hawai'i

SEC
WEST
1 Alabama (Florida St.)
2 Auburn (Miami)
3 Ole Miss (South Carolina)
4 Miss St. (North Carolina State)
5 Georgia (Florida)
6 Georgia Tech (North Carolina)
7 Vanderbilt (Tennessee)
8 LSU (Clemson)
EAST
9 Florida St.
10 Miami
11 Florida
12 Clemson
13 North Carolina
14 North Carolina State
15 South Carolina
16 Tennessee

Sunbelt
1 Troy
2 South Alabama
3 Southern Miss
4 Tulane
5 Memphis
6 Middle Tennessee
7 Louisiana
8 Louisiana Tech
9 Louisiana Monroe
10 Arkansas State
11 Western Kentucky

Power 4 Conference Championship Games (all in domes for ideal weather/playing conditions):

BIG TEN @ Indianapolis
BIG XII @ Dallas
PAC 12 @ Phoenix
SEC @ Atlanta

To me this looks really good, with a couple caveats.

The two last teams in were San Diego State and Hawai'i. A case could be made for adding any of two of these: Colorado State, Nevada, Air Force or Wyoming. From a conference perspective, San Diego provides the largest market and Hawai'i the strongest recruiting area of the five candidates. It also didn't seem right adding Air Force to the Power 4, while leaving out Army and Navy.

Syracuse and Boston College are two teams that have the history and prestige to be a part of the Power 4. Yet it with the rivalries and geography it makes sense for them to be in the American. I also believe and this allows them a greater chance at getting an at-large bid vs playing a brutal conference schedule.

Right now I do not have any BCS Bowl Tie-Ins. If I decide on it, I'd go with rotation:

Even Years:

BIG TEN (Rose Bowl)
BIG XII (Sugar Bowl)
PAC 12 (Rose Bowl)
SEC (Sugar Bowl)

Odd Years:

BIG TEN (Orange Bowl)
BIG XII (Fiesta Bowl)
PAC 12 (Fiesta Bowl)
SEC (Orange Bowl)

*****

YEAR ONE

SEC=7 PAC-12=6 BIG XII=5 BIG TEN=3 Non-Power Conferences=4

Fiesta Bowl Duke 37 Oklahoma St. 10
Orange Bowl UCLA 21 Houston 10
Rose Bowl Virginia Tech 14 Auburn 7
Sugar Bowl Oklahoma 35 Clemson 7

(next best bowl featuring highest ranked teams: Capital One Bowl Michigan State 28 Georgia 24)

National Championship Game: Ohio State 33 USC 13

Final Top 25 Poll
1 Ohio State 14-0
2 Oklahoma 12-2
3 Virginia Tech 11-2
4 USC 13-1
5 Michigan St. 11-3
6 UCLA 11-2
7 Clemson 12-2
8 Auburn 11-2
9 Oregon 9-4
10 Georgia 11-3
11 Georgia Tech 9-4
12 Arizona St. 11-3
13 Houston 11-2
14 Duke 11-2
15 Florida St. 10-3
16 Nebraska 11-3
17 Alabama 8-4
18 Arizona 10-3
19 Florida Atlantic 12-1
20 Bowling Green 12-1
21 West Virginia 9-4
22 LSU 8-5
23 Oklahoma St. 9-4
24 Louisiana Tech 10-3
25 Marshall 10-3

YEAR TWO

Preseason Top 25 Poll

1 Ohio St. (B1G)
2 USC (PAC)
3 Oklahoma (B12)
4 Clemson (SEC)
5 Virginia Tech (B1G)
6 Michigan St. (B1G)
7 Georgia (SEC)
8 Auburn (SEC)
9 Oregon (PAC)
10 Alabama (SEC)
11 Florida St. (SEC)
12 UCLA (PAC)
13 LSU (SEC)
14 Arizona St. (PAC)
15 West Virginia (B1G)
16 Notre Dame (--)
17 Ole Miss (SEC)
18 Nebraska (B12)
19 Georgia Tech (SEC)
20 Baylor (B12)
21 Oklahoma St. (B12)
22 Arizona (PAC)
23 Texas A&M (B12)
24 Florida (SEC)
25 TCU (B12)

Power 4 Conferences in the #25 BCS Rankings:

SEC=7 PAC-12=7 BIG XII=4 BIG TEN=2 Non-Power Conferences=5

Fiesta Bowl Oklahoma 45 Washington 14
Orange Bowl Duke 37 Florida State 32
Rose Bowl Oregon 37 Texas A&M 34
Sugar Bowl Tulsa 31 West Virginia 28

(next best bowl featuring highest ranked teams: Cotton Bowl Miami 19 Missouri 14)

National Championship Game: Clemson 17 Ohio St. 16

Final Top 25 Poll
1 Clemson 11-2
2 Duke 12-1
3 Ohio State 13-1
4 LSU 11-2
5 Oklahoma 11-3
6 Miami 10-3
7 Georgia 10-3
8 Oregon 10-3
9 Tulsa 12-1
10 Florida St. 12-2
11 Auburn 11-3
12 UCLA 10-3
13 Western Michigan 12-1
14 Texas A&M 9-4
15 Arizona St. 9-4
16 Arizona 10-3
17 USC 8-5
18 Notre Dame 9-4
19 Syracuse 10-3
20 Wisconsin 9-4
21 Alabama 8-5
22 Washington 10-4
23 West Virginia 9-4
24 Texas 8-5
25 Memphis 10-3

YEAR THREE

Year Three

Preseason Top 25 Poll

1 Ohio St. (B1G)
2 LSU (SEC)
3 Clemson (SEC)
4 Oklahoma (B12)
5 Georgia (SEC)
6 Florida St. (SEC)
7 Miami (SEC)
8 Oregon (PAC)
9 UCLA (PAC)
10 Auburn (SEC)
11 Texas A&M (B12)
12 USC (PAC)
13 Notre Dame (--)
14 Alabama (SEC)
15 West Virginia (B1G)
16 Baylor (B12)
17 Arizona (PAC)
18 Wisconsin (B12)
19 Texas (B12)
20 Arizona St. (PAC)
21 Washington (PAC)
22 Stanford (PAC)
23 Duke (ACC)
24 Virginia Tech (B1G)
25 Western Michigan (MAC)

Power 4 Conferences in the #25 BCS Rankings:

SEC=3 PAC-12=5 BIG XII=5 BIG TEN=5 Non-Power Conferences=7

Fiesta Bowl Alabama 41 Arizona 7
Orange Bowl Ohio St. 31 Western Michigan 24
Rose Bowl Bowling Green 31 Virginia 0
Sugar Bowl Clemson 48 Notre Dame 20

(next best bowl featuring highest ranked teams: Capital One Bowl LSU 34 Michigan St. 13)

National Championship Game: UCLA 31 Missouri 12

Final Top 25 Poll
1 UCLA 14-0
2 Alabama 13-1
3 Missouri 13-1
4 Bowling Green 13-0
5 Ohio St. 11-2
6 LSU 11-2
7 Clemson 12-2
8 Arizona 11-2
9 Arizona St. 11-3
10 Notre Dame 10-3
11 Washington 9-4
12 Virginia 11-3
13 Oklahoma St. 9-4
14 Western Michigan 10-3
15 BYU 9-4
16 Michigan St. 11-3
17 Oklahoma 9-4
18 Fresno St. 11-2
19 Virginia Tech 9-4
20 TCU 10-4
21 Georgia 9-4
22 Kansas St. 9-4
23 Oregon 8-5
24 Tulsa 9-4
25 Pitt 9-4

YEAR FOUR

Preseason Top 25 Poll

1 UCLA (PAC)
2 Alabama (SEC)
3 Clemson (SEC)
4 LSU (SEC)
5 Ohio St. (B1G)
6 Notre Dame (--)
7 Missouri (B12)
8 Arizona St. (PAC)
9 Washington (PAC)
10 Oklahoma St. (B12)
11 Oklahoma (B12)
12 Virginia (B1G)
13 Oregon (PAC)
14 Virginia Tech (B1G)
15 Michigan St. (B1G)
16 Georgia (SEC)
17 Virginia Tech (B1G)
18 Arizona (PAC)
19 Kansas St. (B12)
20 Bowling Green (MAC)
21 Texas A&M (B12)
22 Texas (B12)
23 BYU (PAC)
24 Kentucky (B1G)
25 Tennessee (SEC)

Power 4 Conferences in the #25 BCS Rankings:

SEC=6 PAC-12=5 BIG XII=6 BIG TEN=2 Non-Power Conferences=6

Fiesta Bowl UCLA 27 Missouri 13
Orange Bowl Alabama 45 Penn State 16
Rose Bowl Virginia Tech 48 Wisconsin 42
Sugar Bowl Western Michigan 45 Temple 0

(next best bowl featuring highest ranked teams: Outback Bowl Louisville 32 Clemson 27)

National Championship Game: Washington 56 Miss St. 49

Final Top 25 Poll
1 Washington 12-1
2 Alabama 11-2
3 Miss State 11-3
4 Western Michigan 13-0
5 California 9-4
6 Clemson 10-3
7 Missouri 12-2
8 UCLA 13-1
9 Virginia Tech 10-3
10 Temple 11-2
11 Auburn 10-3
12 Stanford 10-3
13 Tennessee 11-3
14 Wisconsin 7-5
15 Notre Dame 8-5
16 Duke 11-2
17 Arizona St. 10-4
18 Kansas St. 8-5
19 LSU 9-4
20 UL-Monroe 12-1
21 Nebraska 10-3
22 Baylor 10-3
23 North Carolina 9-4
24 Texas 9-4
25 Penn State 10-4

YEAR FIVE

Preseason Top 25 Poll

1 Alabama (SEC)
2 Clemson (SEC)
3 UCLA (PAC)
4 Stanford (PAC)
5 Miss St. (SEC)
6 Auburn (SEC)
7 Washington (PAC)
8 Missouri (B12)
9 Tennessee (SEC)
10 Notre Dame (--)
11 Texas (B12)
12 North Carolina (SEC)
13 LSU (SEC)
14 Virginia Tech (B1G)
15 Wisconsin (B12)
16 Nebraska (B12)
17 Kansas St. (B12)
18 Penn St. (B1G)
19 Arizona St. (SEC)
20 California (PAC)
21 USC (PAC)
22 Baylor (B12)
23 Oregon (PAC)
24 Western Michigan (MAC)
25 Michigan (B1G)

Power 4 Conferences in the #25 BCS Rankings:

SEC=7 PAC-12=4 BIG XII=6 BIG TEN=4 Non-Power Conferences=4

Fiesta Bowl Army 28 LSU 14
Orange Bowl Texas 31 Virginia Tech 24
Rose Bowl Bowling Green 35 Ohio St. 28
Sugar Bowl USC 27 Texas A&M 6

(next best bowl featuring highest ranked teams: Outback Bowl #11 Tennessee 56 #20 Penn St. 38)

National Championship Game: UCLA 34 Alabama 16

Final Top 25 Poll
1 UCLA 12-2
2 Texas 13-1
3 USC 11-2
4 Alabama 13-1
5 Army 12-1
6 Virginia Tech 11-3
7 Missouri 10-3
8 Texas A&M 11-2
9 Washington 9-4
10 Bowling Green 12-1
11 Tennessee 10-3
12 North Carolina 9-4
13 Ole Miss 9-4
14 Kentucky 9-4
15 LSU 9-4
16 Auburn 9-4
17 Boise St. 11-3
18 Ohio St. 9-4
19 Penn St. 9-4
20 Arizona St. 9-4
21 Toledo 11-2
22 Arizona 10-3
23 Georgia Tech 9-4
24 West Virginia 8-5
25 Oregon 8-5

The top recruiting classes after year #5.

Class Rankings:

1 Alabama SEC
2 USC PAC
3 Texas B12
4 Nebraska B12
5 Ole Miss SEC
6 Clemson SEC
7 Auburn SEC
8 Florida St. SEC
9 Oregon PAC
10 Ohio St. B1G
11 Miss St. SEC
12 Arizona PAC
13 Texas A&M B12
14 Miami SEC
15 Georgia Tech SEC
16 Stanford PAC
17 Wisconsin B12
18 Georgia SEC
19 Arizona St. PAC
20 North Carolina St. SEC
21 Notre Dame (--)
22 Vanderbilt SEC
23 Iowa B12
24 UCLA PAC
25 Penn St. B1G

*Syracuse at #31 had the top signing class of the non-power conferences (Toledo #34, Army #35, Rutgers #46 were the next best)

Certainly in recruiting the Power 4 are dominating, in particular the SEC with 11 of the top 25 classes.

Notre Dame does has maintained its elite status as the lone independent.

My recruiting class at Air Force was #89.

UTEP had the worst overall recruiting class of all the conferences. Kentucky was worst Power 4 Conference at #113

[vgunn]

Certainly the editor will give you the best results, but this is about as good as it can get otherwise.