The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 2022.

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  • tsbmolina
    MVP
    • Feb 2012
    • 1290

    #1

    The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 2022.

    “Expanding the NFL’s presence in the world of gaming has become a focus for the League as we look to grow the next generation of our fan base and reviving our partnership with 2K was a natural step in that effort,” NFL senior vice president of consumer products Joe Ruggiero said. “2K is a worldwide leader in sports video games, with a proven track record of creating best-in-class and award-winning games, and we look forward to sharing more about the projects we are working on with them in the future.”

    That was the quote by the NFL senior vice president of consumer products Joe Ruggiero. Very telling when you consider the NFL and EA have made a ton of money off of the exclusive license but have done little to expand the the audience, particularly the young audience who grow up to watch the real game as adults.

    I wrote this 2 years ago, "The exclusive license will be the death of the NFL videogame market for growth." With the negative publicity that concussions have had on the sport, parents are keeping there children away from youth football because of the dangers inherit in football. In the process it's potentially stunting the growth of said youth playing or following the sport. The NFL needs 2K Sports and the exposure it would give them. A fan of the videogaming sport will grow up to be a viewer of the said sport. All you have to do is look at what the NBA 2K franchise has done for basketball. It has made kids who grow up to be adults, fans of the sport and the popularity has never been more high for the NBA as a whole. At this point it's the NFL's loss not 2K Sports if the NFL continues with there exclusive license.

    Fast forward to the present and read the quote highlighted in red. The NFL has finally come to it's senses and have come to the realization that you can't put a price tag on exposure to the sport and building a future fan base by getting as many hands on an NFL licensed football game as possible. While they made tons of money off of the exclusive license, 20/20 hindsight it came at the high cost of loosing future viewers of the sport for not being able to expand the young demographic inherit in the video gaming audience. That is of high value which you can't put a price tag on.

    If you followed the rise of the NBA 2K series from 2009 until now you would see the huge following it has built over the past 11 years. It has gone from selling 2 million units in 2009 to over 12 million in 2019, while Madden has gone from selling 5 million units in 2009 to 8 million in 2019. That's +10 million in 11 years for NBA2K, where as it's only +3 million for Madden in the same time-frame. Imagine what 2K can do for expanding the NFL audience if NBA 2K is anything to go by. NBA 2K went from a distant second in the sports arena to surpassing the king of American sports Madden, by a significant number. With that being said, it's no wonder the NFL sees value in bringing 2K back into the football gaming fold. 2K will expand the audience which in turn will expand the future viewers of the sport. The NFL gains valuable dollars from selling 2 licenses for whatever there asking price is regardless if EA thinks its fair or not. Do you really think EA is going to balk at whatever the NFL's asking price is and risk loosing there cash cow annual tent pole title. It's a win, win for the NFL. More money selling the license for a set asking price to multiple developers and in doing so expanding there audience exponentially. The football video gaming future looks bright for the NFL and it's Audience indeed! To bad it took 15 years for them to figure out what I could have told them long ago.
    Last edited by tsbmolina; 03-15-2020, 02:47 AM.
  • Drayzon2020
    Just started!
    • Mar 2020
    • 2

    #2
    Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

    Great post! I look forward to the future of 2k football, especially if/when they get back into NCAA football.

    Comment

    • illwill10
      Hall Of Fame
      • Mar 2009
      • 19822

      #3
      Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

      I agree.
      NFL is looking to really expand. You see with the 17th game and expanded Playoff format, CBA, and adding more international games. NFL wants to get more of a global market. While NFL is traditionally king in USA, it doesn't have same global pull as a Fifa and NBA. That is a reason why you see them looking 2k. As you said NBA 2k has seen a big jump overall since the middle of the 7th generation compared to Madden. NBA 2k is far from perfect, but has done a good job of balancing the game out. NBA2k has something solid for everyone. They have a solid in-depth MyLeague/Franchise, a Career mode, a card-collecting MyTeam/Ultimate Team, Online Pro-Am and Park. Madden doesn't have the Solid Franchise and Career mode. They neglected the offline gamers for a more casual approach. I feel 2k could do a better job with online environment. I think if they can recreate a NFL version of the Park. Even though I'm an offline only gamer, Madden has been lacking on online modes. Madden has just relied on MUT, traditional Online, and now Superstar KO. For online, you need more quicker and fun modes that can be completed within 5-20 mins without having to play short quarter games. Modes like Training Camp Drills like in 6th generation, Pro Bowl Skill Challenge drills, and 7-on-7 are modes that can be designed to be fun and get completed within 5-20 mins.

      I do feel like NFL does want to give 2k it's shot. The deal feels like if successful, 2k could have non-simulation games and simulation games after 2021. With the EA deal expiring after the 2021 season(early 2022), we can expect the negotiations to ramp up within the back half of 2021. I feel the initial success of NFL 2k and it's reception will determine how NFL wants to approach license. The original EA exclusive license was announced in Dec 2004, so I expect a Dec 2021 announcement of how things will go.

      Comment

      • NewAgeOutlaw716
        Rookie
        • Jun 2018
        • 8

        #4
        Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

        I hope 2K can make a sim football game in 2022 like ESPN 2K4 and 2K5 with Chris Berman.

        Comment

        • grabursock55
          Rookie
          • Nov 2011
          • 404

          #5
          Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

          the fact that madden sold more copies in 2019 than 2009 is the saddest part of your post.

          Comment

          • JayhawkerStL
            Banned
            • Apr 2004
            • 3644

            #6
            Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

            Originally posted by grabursock55
            the fact that madden sold more copies in 2019 than 2009 is the saddest part of your post.
            Since I remember Madden 09 as a pure trash, but have been enjoying the series since Madden 15, it makes sense to me.

            And I’ve been a sim gamer since the 70s. Once Madden stopped trying to be a sim and start being fun, it got better.
            Last edited by JayhawkerStL; 03-25-2020, 11:26 PM.

            Comment

            • jerwoods
              MVP
              • Jan 2009
              • 2999

              #7
              Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

              i think NFL2K21 will be big into myplayer and park play like a 7-7 type of play

              but if it sells well it could go well my only worry its all the microtransactions

              Comment

              • ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
                MVP
                • Dec 2009
                • 4682

                #8
                Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

                Originally posted by JayhawkerStL
                Since I remember Madden 09 as a pure trash, but have been injuring the series since Madden 15, it makes sense to me.

                And I’ve been a sim gamer since the 70s. Once Madden stopped trying to be a sim and start being fun, it got better.
                What? Madden now has super heroes and wastes valuable resources on designing and updating a micro-transaction mode that has nothing to do with the NFL.
                Originally posted by Therebelyell626
                I am going to create a team called "the happy town fundament rapscallions" and hurt your already diminishing image
                https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2049813056

                Last edited by your mom; 06-06-2006 at 6:06 PM.

                Comment

                • JayhawkerStL
                  Banned
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 3644

                  #9
                  Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

                  Originally posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
                  What? Madden now has super heroes and wastes valuable resources on designing and updating a micro-transaction mode that has nothing to do with the NFL.
                  I played Madden 06, and it was crap. Yet Madden fans keep holding it and 12 up as examples of when Madden was great.

                  It always feels like all of this is born way more out of EA hate than a rational memory of 2K5 and 2K8, games I loved. But 2K is the game I started playing when a real sim football game, Front Page Sports FBPro, released FBPro 99, a game so bad it had to be recalled, and ended up killing the franchise.

                  2K is what I settled for. It wasn’t sim. It designed for kids, had terrible sim results, and ridiculously bad DB play. But it was fun H2H and I loved how 2K5 allowed you to download profiles of the teams you were going to play based on the plays your opponent used in past games, which made prepping for live games fun.

                  I am pretty excited to play whatever 2K releases. But some of these takes are cringe worthy. They come from the same types of folks that are responsible for there now just being one game per sport among basketball, hockey, and baseball.

                  The “winning” games were considered great, until their competitors were canceled. Suddenly, it became clear that sports gamers can only consider a game great if they have another to compare it to. The hate for NHL popped up quick, because EA. But now, the hate for 2K basketball and The Show is building. Without another game to rag on, they turn on the only game left, picking at its flaws, blowing small things out of proportion.

                  Sports gamers, by and large, seem incapable of just not playing a game they don’t like. They have to actually mock people that play and enjoy the game. It’s pathetic, to be honest.
                  Last edited by JayhawkerStL; 03-26-2020, 02:33 PM.

                  Comment

                  • moTIGS
                    Pro
                    • Jun 2003
                    • 568

                    #10
                    Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

                    Originally posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
                    What? Madden now has super heroes and wastes valuable resources on designing and updating a micro-transaction mode that has nothing to do with the NFL.
                    I have no problem with a few superheroes.

                    Barry Sanders was a super hero. Bo Jackson was. Jerry Rice was. Calvin Johnson was. Several others were NFL versions of super heroes.

                    I hadn't played Madden in years until I got 20 after playing fairly religiously for a decade starting with 1999 and getting into football gaming with 93/94 on Genesis, and superstars/x-factors are one of my favorite parts of the game. They create players who truly feel special.

                    They need continued work to balance them, but overall, they strike me as an excellent addition that make things more fun.

                    If/when 2K starts producing a sim game to truly compete with Madden, I hope they also find a way to create top players who feel special.

                    Comment

                    • Kanobi
                      H*F Cl*ss *f '09
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 6054

                      #11
                      Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

                      Originally posted by moTIGS

                      If/when 2K starts producing a sim game to truly compete with Madden, I hope they also find a way to create top players who feel special.
                      They achieved that in All Pro Football 2k8 with the abilities and the tier (gold, silver and bronze) system.

                      King Javo's APF Editor further revealed just how deep and versatile the system is in terms of making each player unique. You can literally make a player play exactly like his real-life counterpart with the tools APF's system provides.

                      Assuming the same developer, Visual Concepts, releases an NFL2k...I would expect them to achieve that same level of player uniqueness again with some obvious upgrades to modernize and deepen the abilities and attibutes system.

                      In fact, I would say such a system isnt entirely off the board for the non-sim title(s) they have planned.

                      Comment

                      • illwill10
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Mar 2009
                        • 19822

                        #12
                        Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

                        Originally posted by Kanobi
                        They achieved that in All Pro Football 2k8 with the abilities and the tier (gold, silver and bronze) system.

                        King Javo's APF Editor further revealed just how deep and versatile the system is in terms of making each player unique. You can literally make a player play exactly like his real-life counterpart with the tools APF's system provides.

                        Assuming the same developer, Visual Concepts, releases an NFL2k...I would expect them to achieve that same level of player uniqueness again with some obvious upgrades to modernize and deepen the abilities and attibutes system.

                        In fact, I would say such a system isnt entirely off the board for the non-sim title(s) they have planned.
                        I agree. The abilities and tiers made had an huge positive impact on gameplay. It never felt overpowered like how Abilities are in Madden. Madden feels like superpowers. Whereas in APF, abilities felt like a skill that other players didn't have. You didn't need a team full of golds to be a great team. You just needed to know how you wanted to construct a team and have parts mesh. Gold's stood out, but Silver and Bronze players were no slouches. I can always find a Silver CB like Lem Barney to cover #1 WRs or a Bronze DL like Dexter Manley to rush the passer. With Madden, speed has always been King. I never had to think twice about playing the Patriots twice in Madden. In APF, I had teams that might had teams with just 1 Speed Burner and that player was usually a LB. You don't need speed to be dominant. Just give me a WR with Route God and Soft Hands or a DB with Coverage Specialist and Closing Speed. Try to cover Jerry Rice with a Bronze or Generic CB and see him take over. A Gold CB vs. Jerry Rice is a even battle. I had games where I shut him down and games where he went off. I doubled him and he would still create separation without Speed Burner because of how effective Gold Route God was. But it didn't feel cheesy at all. Gold Route God route running was so smooth and generic WRs couldn't separate. But not all generic players were liabilities. I always had a generic DB that would get beat against star Was, but overall solid in coverage and make 1-2 key plays a game. But playing with a Gold QB versus is a huge difference. If you have a QB with Rocket Arm, Laser Accuracy, and Quick Release, you can sit and make every throw. I had my star QB get injured and had to play backup generic for a couple games. I had to completely adjust passing game.
                        I enjoyed King Javo editor. Made a big difference. If I had time to play, I would have bought that latest version. I used the free version and still makes a big difference when I played last year. I still debate on buying editor, but I don't have time to really sit and play games at current time.

                        I would like them to build off of APF gameplay engine. But I don't know if that is reasonable since the 2k8 game engine since that was the 2k5 engine just upgraded. EA and 2k took different routes when it came to the 6th to 7th generation transition. EA pretty much stripped everything down and built from the ground up(still recovering from that since some gameplay issues are still present). 2k, outside of graphics, built on gameplay from 6th gen. I just don't know if they could build off a 6th gen gameplay engine for the 9th gen consoles. But I do see them taking a lot of inspiration from that APF engine.
                        Unless there are hard restrictions on what they can do with a non-simulation, I do believe that type of system is possible. It could be a situation where they can't have 11-on-11 or have to be over-the-top arcade(Playground/Street). But if they aren't forced to do that, then they could still build a sim-style system, they would just have to present it in non-simulation way. Whose to say if the Star Tier system with abilities can't be considered non-simulation. They could argue that not using a traditional numbered rating system, as a reason it isn't simulation. I never cared for numbered system just because most sports games don't good job of differentiating closely rated players. In Madden, OVR didn't really even matter. Ratings do. But even then they either tie in animations to a range of ratings or increase probability of animation success. But I do feel like there could be loopholes or ways around to build a sim-like gameplay engine. Especially since they might have a chance at the simulation license, I think they would like a chance to transition quickly to a full simulation game. Madden has been transitioning to casual friendly/Arcade gameplay the past generation. Their "simulation" gameplay setting is hardly simulation

                        Comment

                        • tuckermaine
                          Banned
                          • Nov 2017
                          • 922

                          #13
                          Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

                          So we have to wait till 2022 for a 2k simulation...you think....that means two more “Kiddie” games from Madden..arrgghh!!!!!

                          Comment

                          • illwill10
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 19822

                            #14
                            Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

                            Originally posted by tuckermaine
                            So we have to wait till 2022 for a 2k simulation...you think....that means two more “Kiddie” games from Madden..arrgghh!!!!!
                            That's if the NFL is truly willing to open up the simulation license. At worse, this could be a situation where NFL and 2k are just looking to bring in more revenue. But I feel the timing of this is what brings up questions. If the non-simulation license has been up for grabs for years, then why wait now right before Madden's exclusive deal is almost up? Or why not just wait for the exclusive license to open up for bidding? One could say that this is NFL saying 2k has to prove it's self first. But in theory, 2k would have to really come out the gates swinging on whatever they release. The initial success of 2k Football would be paramount in what NFL decides. This is a situation where either NFL already has a decision made up(whether to open up license) or rely on initial sales. I'm leaning more towards the former but initial sales would confirm decision. I feel that NFL already knows what it wants to do. Either they want to open up license and good initial sales would only help confirm it. Or they are comfortable with Madden as exclusive simulation game and just want 2k as a way to bring in more revenue. But then if 2k has a feeling it could get the simulation license by end of 2021 season, do they build a non-simulation game that can be easily transitioned to a simulation game? I do feel they could want to have a simulation by 2022 if possible. But only possible if they already have a game engine in place for a simulation game. The non-simulation license is multiple games for multiple years. So even if they get simulation license, still would be basically 3 football games they are producing. The sim game, non-sim, and most likely mobile game.

                            The best case is that Madden really steps it up now. Hopefully Madden sees it as competition and rises to occasion. Since start of 7th generation, Madden has had tendency to re-invent the wheel and strip everything down. Madden 06 when they did a full overhaul to next gen and took years to recover. Then in Madden 13 when they stripped down game modes for Connected Franchise. Madden is in need of a positive overhaul in gameplay and game modes.
                            Last edited by illwill10; 03-28-2020, 08:22 PM.

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                            • xxvii
                              Rookie
                              • Mar 2020
                              • 47

                              #15
                              Re: The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 20

                              I'm stuck playing madden 17 lol, but a new 2k would be dope for sure. It would be cool for a Berman reunion for halftime shows

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