How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

[TheButter]

I was too young to have seen it for myself, never knew 2k was even a thing until a few years ago.

Played the 2k22 mod today and It's amazing.

DBs don't bull**** and actually allow touch passes to be dropped into the bucket. The presentation, halftime show, physics, are all top of the line.

How did EA win? It's not even close to 2k5's level. Not even Madden 08.

[jd@os]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

My memory is a bit foggy so someone please correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't been a football gamer since the early to mid 2000s), but if I recall correctly, EA gained the exclusive rights for the NFL game and won that way.
It seemed to me that in the early 2000s, EA Sports (Madden and Live) had the bells and whistles when it came to features and their games were genuinely fun where 2K games were more serious (some people say "sim" but to each his own).

If you played 2K back then, it was as if you were on to a tv show that a lot of people didn't know about, and you tried to put your friends on. Then of course 2K dropped its prices to $19.99 for a time and more people gave it a shot and word started spreading.

I do think there is a YouTube video about this if you are interested.

[SmashMan]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

To generate buzz, 2K sold NFL 2K5 brand new for $20.

NFL reportedly wasn’t happy about that and felt it devalued their brand when their other licensing partners were selling games for the standard industry price. They then took offers for the exclusive license and the partner with the most money and who the NFL already had a good working relationship with won the bidding.

EA had (unsuccessfully) lobbied for an exclusive license before that; and with the way the NFL has done business since there surely would’ve been an exclusive deal with someone at some point anyway, but 2K5’s price point was the main reason things happened the way they did when they did.

[Blzer]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

[simbayless]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

Right here👇👇👇

https://youtu.be/opVrXaunAQc

[NYJets]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

How did EA win? It's not even close to 2k5's level. Not even Madden 08.

Madden was the name brand. Been around for years on all the most popular systems. 2k sports was new, and was on the Dreamcast which didn't sell too well so not a lot of people knew about them. When Dreamcast officially failed they moved the games to ps2 and xbox, but since Madden was the biggest name and was a pretty good product, 2K football didn't sell well at all. And then as others have said, 2K decided on a one time $20 price tag because they knew they had the better product and felt if they could just find a way to get people to try it they could turn things around. Then obviously Madden went exclusive.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

Right here������
https://youtu.be/opVrXaunAQc

This is pretty accurate. It had nothing to do with the NFL feeling their brand was being devalued by the NFL2K5 price point, although that's the narrative Madden fans have tried to push over the years. The year the NFL went exclusive, within months the NCAA also went exclusive to EA. EA was trying to put 2K out of business.

EA was doing what Microsoft used to do before they were broken up by the government for antitrust practices - kill competition in areas their products weren't as strong in until their products could compete or surpass the competition.

Problem was, after the exclusivity announcements, the quality of Madden actually went backwards. Significantly backwards. Fortunately for EA, with no competition, people began to forget and eventually accepted Madden for what it was.

Funny it's been 15+years and you have a generation of gamers that are completely oblivious to how good Madden and NFL2K used to be, relative to the PS2/Xbox gaming generation.

[Hooe]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

EA was doing what Microsoft used to do before they were broken up by the government for antitrust practices - kill competition in areas their products weren't as strong in until their products could compete or surpass the competition.

I'm not really sure where to start with this thought, but let's make the obvious factual corrections:

- though the original ruling did call for Microsoft to be split into two companies, the final settlement of United States vs Microsoft Corporation neither called for nor resulted in in the fracture of the company. Microsoft was still allowed to continue developing first-party software in-house and was allowed to continue bundling with Windows its own software such as Internet Explorer after the settlement.

- one private corporation entering into an exclusive intellectual property licensing agreement with another - in this case, Electronic Arts with both the NFL and NFLPI - does not constitute the creation of monopoly conditions in the video game industry, nor does it constitute an anti-trust violation. The existence of any video game published by a company other than Electronic Arts - for example, Fortnite - is enough to demonstrate this. We can also more specifically point to any other non-EA football video game which has appeared for sale since the agreement was signed to demonstrate that a viable marketplace for football video games still exists: Blitz The League, All Pro Football 2K8, Backbreaker, Maximum Football, Axis Football, BCFX, etc.

A comparison between the Microsoft anti-trust litigation and the private business dealings between the NFL and Electronic Arts is misleading, inaccurate, and agenda-driven. It is more importantly irrelevant because the case facts of the Microsoft litigation are entirely different and have nothing to do with intellectual property rights.

[Hooe]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

How did EA win? It's not even close to 2k5's level.

Ignoring both the EA - NFL exclusivity agreement (other people have already told that story) and the litany of football strategy features not present in NFL 2K5 relative to modern football games on account of its advanced age, I think people either forget or deliberately omit the glaring problems present in NFL 2K5 which dramatically hampered the experience both during its time of relevance and today, especially from the perspective of multiplayer and franchise.

For example, I gather you are a big fan of NFL Head Coach and similar single-player NFL team management games. In NFL 2K5 franchise mode, CPU-controlled teams always and only select QBs, RBs, OTs, and DEs with their Round 1 draft picks. That bug was never corrected, and it is a crippling roster management issue for single player franchise gamers once you know it is there.

If I recall correctly, NFL 2K5 also had major issues with CPU trade logic, notably with CPU teams aggressively trading star players with one another. I recall the CPU Packers trading away Brett Favre quite often.

If you were a couch multiplayer gamer with friends, NFL 2K5 franchise mode was a logistical nightmare; you are only allowed to play the games in the exact order they appear on the schedule. In comparison, every Madden game of the era allowed for playing the games in a given week in any order. This shortcoming by itself stopped my high school friends from playing NFL 2K5 franchise with me, and as a result we played a ton of Madden 2005 Franchise instead with no regrets.

I'm not even going to touch the Weekly Prep feature, which was well-intentioned but so incredibly obtuse and opaque. I never figured it out. I don't know that anyone did. Player progression in NFL 2K5 was also chaotic and unpredictable. Maybe that's more realistic? But it certainly wasn't fun winning MVP with a young quarterback only to see his OVR rating decrease the following season.

On the field, there were also significant issues. The most prominent one I remember is that offensive clipping penalties subtracted from a ballcarrier's rushing yardage. I believe this bug was corrected on XBOX with a patch, admittedly, but as far as I know it is still present on the PS2 version, which I think is the more popular version for emulation.

Further, safeties playing deep half zones in Cover 2 or Cover 3 middle third zones were also routinely seen running in tight semi-circles, which could get them out of position extremely quickly. I recall many many roster editors spending time "in the lab" so to speak trying to mess with all sorts of ratings to improve safety play; I have no idea how successful they were in doing so, but having watched videos of NFL 2K5 played on emulators as recent as this summer I know the problem is still in the game.

NFL 2K5 should be celebrated for its kitchen-sink design, its breadth of content and features, its fan service, its raising the bar for sports video game presentation and commentary, the VIP System (this in particular isn't talked about nearly enough), and its at the time good gameplay which on-balance at least held its own with Madden 2005 (it did some things better and some things worse). For franchise and multiplayer gamers, however, NFL 2K5 was surpassed a long time ago.

[Blzer]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

Everything you stated was not only very fair, but also very accurate. The negative yardage from offensive penalties is infuriating beyond belief, and emulation doesn't address it since it's from the PS2 version as you stated.

Regardless, it's my game of preference even seventeen years later. More so than any Madden or even APF (which addressed a lot of gameplay concerns). I enjoyed the Blitz: The League games, but those don't have NFL depth and could only take me so far. Backbreaker was the most novelty football toy I ever played with, despite its massive flaws.

[illwill10]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

For me, APF 2K8 is still my favorite on-field gameplay football games. It's been a couple years, but it's always a game I could pop in and start a season because the gameplay was so smooth. I could build a team without a speed burner and still be dominant. Like CM Hooe said, a lot with 2k5 was good in concept but implemented poorly/basic. A lot of the praise is based on nostalgia. Like with NCAA 14. It's praised like it was the best NCAA game because it was the last game. While I enjoyed it, only played it for 3 months and haven't touched it in 2 years. It was streamlined too much which took away from the game.

Fully agree on the VIP system. I feel that do well in today's era. It felt broken in APF2K8, but better in 2k5. It's something that would make gameplay so much better. Imagine it being more in-depth and better implementation in today's game, it would make every game feel unique and have coaches feel like they have an impact. Even if it is something that you just attach to coaches, it would do wonders for Madden.

[simbayless]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

This may sound crazy but it would be a dream Collab if EA and 2k work on NFL simulation together by helping eachother weakness and strengths

EA would work on graphics on unreal engine 5 and MUt

2k works on gameplay and franchise mode


Oops I just woke up 😅

That's like asking a cat 🐈 to get a long with a dog🐕

Raider fans getting along with 49er fans

Whataburger with in and out burger🍔

Freddy Krueger with Jason

Red and blue team

50 cent with jarule

Hot and cold

You get my drift some things are meant to compete with eachother other 🤷

[spankdatazz22]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

A comparison between the Microsoft anti-trust litigation and the private business dealings between the NFL and Electronic Arts is misleading, inaccurate, and agenda-driven. It is more importantly irrelevant because the case facts of the Microsoft litigation are entirely different and have nothing to do with intellectual property rights.

I think you're overreacting to my use of Microsoft as an example and putting in the word "antitrust" next to it - I wasn't trying to make a legal argument at all. Personally I don't think Madden is a monopoly nor have I ever argued that to be the case. I was speaking to Microsoft's business practices back in the day, which most acknowledge were ruthless.

My issue with EA was imo they efforted to put 2K out of business. Only the most naive would view the NFL exclusivity deal in a vacuum. There was also NCAA exclusivity, ESPN exclusivity, and several other actions taken - all within a couple months of each other - to ensure 2K had no avenue to turn to make a legitimate football game. It seems highly doubtful "it was just a coincidence" all these companies went exclusive practically at the same time.

Most would admit that no matter how great a sports games' gameplay is, it's at a severe competitive disadvantage if it's unlicensed. All the games you mentioned - Backbreaker, APF, etc. would be considerably more desirable if they had official licensing of the NFL. It's silly to say otherwise. Maybe someone can make an XFL/USFL/European League game but it's only going to appeal to a super-small subset of gamers.

Also, I've never made the argument 2K5 was considerably better than Madden 05. They were probably more neck-and-neck at the time. I remember saying repeatedly things like gang tackling, double-team blocking, presentation features, etc. would be in Madden in a few years - and it never materialized. Or materialized console generations later, and not arguably not as good as it should be. 2K5 & APF's legends have grown over the years more because of Madden's failures than anything either game did imo. The reason there's anticipation for 2K's football game isn't because so many fans of 2K are still around and refuse to accept Madden. In 15yrs EA Tiburon should've long squashed any memory of 2K football games from multiple console generations ago, but they haven't.

[NYJets]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

My issue with EA was imo they efforted to put 2K out of business. Only the most naive would view the NFL exclusivity deal in a vacuum. There was also NCAA exclusivity, ESPN exclusivity, and several other actions taken - all within a couple months of each other - to ensure 2K had no avenue to turn to make a legitimate football game. It seems highly doubtful "it was just a coincidence" all these companies went exclusive practically at the same time.

Yup. They even bought the Arena Football license and made one game to stop 2K from doing that. And then the ESPN license they bought for most games they just stuck in a drawer and barely used. Makes it even worse that the 2k5 presentation still blows away Madden's. Just an awful turning point for sports gaming.

[Thunderhorse]

Re: How did the whole 2k vs EA market war happen?

How did EA win? It's not even close to 2k5's level. Not even Madden 08.

It's not about quality.

If the NFL cared, "Sunday Ticket" wouldn't have been wrapped up with DirectTv for years.