My Final HC09 Sliders

[picker19]

Oh, I forgot to mention two things: 1) I move Run Block for both up to 99; and 2) the decreased CPU AWR to 1 actually impacts tackling. So, I need to play through a bunch of games to see if I have to up Tackling (which will impact the run game adversely...Catch 22).

[Mike3207]

Didn't you say you saw weird gameplay with the sliders below 10?

[picker19]

Yes, but I never could confirm it to be consistent. I think most of the "weird" gameplay came from putting the Human sliders down to 1. The CPU sliders seem to be OK so far on 1 or 99, for instance.

On this last version, the sliders have definitely improved the running game, but most of it's improvement is because of BTKs. In two games, Jones-Drew has 20+ BTKs, when the sim engine gives good RBs around ~5 BTKs a game on average. The LBs, especially mine, are still getting penetration, but they're missing that first tackle, which allows the RB to have a chance to make a good gain. So, I may play with decreasing the Human AWR, but my fear is that A) it will ruin the slider balance I have; and/or B) it will make the pass game too good again.

But the other problem which can't be solved for is that when you watch bad run plays, the O-line blocking is mostly at fault with a missed assignment, allowing a LB a clear lane into the backfield. This is just the game mechanics unfortunately.

Anyway, there's still some tweaking to be done.

[Byron Yatch]

I have seen you start to go on some of the things Ive got set in my sliders for year 4 as the last couple posts(qb awr and run blocking are close to what Ive concluded with.

I went 3-1 in the preseason with different types of games against 3 superstar teams(pats bucs and browns with rob ryan as the hc(IIRC)) and one bad team(cheifs) but these are the sliders Im using. Kind of a mix of everyone here and my own adjustments.

First off, You cant match ALL the sliders Ive come to learn, they just dont affect the teams evenly(some of them do though). I give the cpu an advantage at a couple areas but the rest will be even.

Human Offense 25(QBA) 50(P BLOCK) 50(CATCH) 55(RBA) 75(R Block)
CPU OFFENSE 35(QBA) 50(P Block) 50(catch) 60(RBA) 80(R BLOCK)

Human Defense 20(awr) 50 (kdowns) 25(intercept) 50 (blk shed) 30 tackle
CPU Defense 60(awr) 50(kdowns) 25 (intercept) 50 (blk shed) 30 tackle

Special teams BOTH 80 kick power 50 accuracy 90 punt power 75 p ac 40 ko power(lower if you have a stronger leg to 30 or 20, personal preference really)


I dont touch pass block or shed block because I know with proper gameplanning, you can get 20 sacks with a single de in a season(Seen doki do it his rookie year and 17 the next while missing 2 games due to different injuries(broken hand and torn calf muscle).

I also dont touch catching anymore as I noticed it was making it easier for ANYONE to catch the ball, not just offensive players. Thats why more cbs and safeties get more int if you raise catching or knockdowns really. So I dont touch that one anymore either.

You should have a much more competitive game with these. Try and use this as a base and go from there... I think you guys will enjoy it as Im getting a decent challenge from great teams. You wont score more than 50 usually unless you use money plays too often. Im averaging between 21 and 35 really, better defenses will keep you down longer. Harder to score in the 1st quarter unless you get lucky with an int ret for td or kickoff/punt return for td which dont happen too often, but more than realistically.

Seen interceptions and fumbles drop to like 3 a game in total(both teams included). Passing is usually less than 300yds a game unless theres a key mismatch the qb finds. Both teams CAN(not always will) average 5 yards a carry with a good rb and good oline. Against better run ds you will still get shut down more often than not though if you run into their strength.

Sometimes weather can cause extra turnovers(rain + big hitters = fumbles, heavy wind + pressure = interceptions), but beautiful weather usually sees less with these.

[picker19]

Quote: Originally Posted by Byron Yatch

I have seen you start to go on some of the things Ive got set in my sliders for year 4 as the last couple posts(qb awr and run blocking are close to what Ive concluded with. I went 3-1 in the preseason with different types of games against 3 superstar teams(pats bucs and browns with rob ryan as the hc(IIRC)) and one bad team(cheifs) but these are the sliders Im using. Kind of a mix of everyone here and my own adjustments. First off, You cant match ALL the sliders Ive come to learn, they just dont affect the teams evenly(some of them do though). I give the cpu an advantage at a couple areas but the rest will be even. Human Offense 25(QBA) 50(P BLOCK) 50(CATCH) 55(RBA) 75(R Block) CPU OFFENSE 35(QBA) 50(P Block) 50(catch) 60(RBA) 80(R BLOCK) Human Defense 20(awr) 50 (kdowns) 25(intercept) 50 (blk shed) 30 tackle CPU Defense 60(awr) 50(kdowns) 25 (intercept) 50 (blk shed) 30 tackle Special teams BOTH 80 kick power 50 accuracy 90 punt power 75 p ac 40 ko power(lower if you have a stronger leg to 30 or 20, personal preference really) I dont touch pass block or shed block because I know with proper gameplanning, you can get 20 sacks with a single de in a season(Seen doki do it his rookie year and 17 the next while missing 2 games due to different injuries(broken hand and torn calf muscle). I also dont touch catching anymore as I noticed it was making it easier for ANYONE to catch the ball, not just offensive players. Thats why more cbs and safeties get more int if you raise catching or knockdowns really. So I dont touch that one anymore either. You should have a much more competitive game with these. Try and use this as a base and go from there... I think you guys will enjoy it as Im getting a decent challenge from great teams. You wont score more than 50 usually unless you use money plays too often. Im averaging between 21 and 35 really, better defenses will keep you down longer. Harder to score in the 1st quarter unless you get lucky with an int ret for td or kickoff/punt return for td which dont happen too often, but more than realistically. Seen interceptions and fumbles drop to like 3 a game in total(both teams included). Passing is usually less than 300yds a game unless theres a key mismatch the qb finds. Both teams CAN(not always will) average 5 yards a carry with a good rb and good oline. Against better run ds you will still get shut down more often than not though if you run into their strength. Sometimes weather can cause extra turnovers(rain + big hitters = fumbles, heavy wind + pressure = interceptions), but beautiful weather usually sees less with these.

Thanks for the post! This is very interesting. I'm glad to see someone else is trying to "disconnect" the USER/CPU sliders. I definitely have a few questions for you:

1. For Offense, I see you've lowered the Human sliders in some areas versus the CPU sliders. In my personal observations, I have never seen the User sliders directly impact either the User or CPU offense. I know they do "something," because when I've lowered the Human sliders, I've seen the game speed change (slower), but I've never seen much of anything else. What have you seen? Have you seen the lower QBA impact your QB, for instance?
2. On the D sliders, again, I've seen you have lowered the User D sliders versus the CPU ones. Personally, I have seen the User D sliders impact the CPU more than the User. This is why I have the CPU sliders lower than User, because I am 100% sure the CPU sliders impact BOTH sides, but the User sliders are more of a mystery.
3. Overall, you and I are on the same page as disconnecting the sliders, but I've only focused on the Defensive sliders, keeping the User D sliders higher than the CPU, because my testing has shown me the User D sliders impact the CPU more than they do the User. Therefore, I'm really interested in hearing your observations on how the User sliders are working for you.

With my slider set on having the Human D sliders higher, I've had much more challenging games. For instance, on my latest slider set above, I ended up 8-8 as the Jaguars in Year 1. For my testing, I tried the same season with the Jaguars on having the sliders all the same, and I ended up going 14-2. So, I'm confident the key to having a challenging game is to disconnect the sliders, or at least the defensive ones, but on offense, I keep them together, because I have no idea what those offensive ones do, so I'd love to hear what you've been seeing.

Oh, and one more thing, you are spot on with the WR Catch and Knockdown sliders. I keep them at 50, too, because any higher or lower, and they do increase INTs for the D.

[Byron Yatch]

I know for sure both sides affect both sides like you think they do(cpu affecting human and vice versa). I just think its flipped from the way you think, so I believe human effects human more, cpu affects cpu more. Im gonna play this whole season with these sliders, trying not to touch them at all, just about to start the 4th regular season.

If I notice I start to steamroll teams, I will keep a save from the beginning of the regular season and try your latest versions.

As for the changes Ive made making the human less than the cpu

If the cpu is less than 30 really in acc great qbs will avg maybe 200 yds a game is what I saw, especially at 25 or lower. At 35, a player like tom brady on a clear day can throw for 350 against a poor pass d. at 25 on human, a great qb can still throw for 300 a game if the other team has a problem matching up. If there's any kind of weather, it usually seems like they'll average low 200s.

I also have the run blocking and ability a little higher for the cpu as I found 80 rb was too dominant for human but 75 was too weak for cpu. Same with 60 and 55, i wanted to make sure great rbs on the opponents team could do some special things instead of always getting stuffed in the backfield. I just noticed over 60 really and fumbles become a problem for either human or cpu.

As for defense, I lowered human awareness so dbs cant always hawk passes and lbs cant always KNOW THE RUN IS COMING. I put cpu at 60 because I wanted more of a challenge on offense for me so they stop runs and passes more often. I honestly might move this up to 65 and human to 25, dont know yet.
Also, INTERCEPTIONS at 25 is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. IT seems like a a sweet spot. At 20 or 30 it gives more interceptions then at 25. I cant explain it, I just know it to be true through research.

If you do want to use this set, I HIGHLY SUGGEST not moving any slider more or less than 5 or 10 points until you have ALREADY checked those two spots. You dont want to move too far or you dont see how strong the slider is compared to others.

[Mike3207]

Byron, I did try this slider set in preseason-no human running game with slider at 60. I don't think you will have one if awareness is over 45. Linebacker murder the running game at default, I really think it needs to be at 40 or 45 if you're going to have any chance at a running game.For the record, the CPU did run the ball real well at 20.

[picker19]

Quote: Originally Posted by Byron Yatch

I know for sure both sides affect both sides like you think they do(cpu affecting human and vice versa). I just think its flipped from the way you think, so I believe human effects human more, cpu affects cpu more. Im gonna play this whole season with these sliders, trying not to touch them at all, just about to start the 4th regular season. If I notice I start to steamroll teams, I will keep a save from the beginning of the regular season and try your latest versions. As for the changes Ive made making the human less than the cpu If the cpu is less than 30 really in acc great qbs will avg maybe 200 yds a game is what I saw, especially at 25 or lower. At 35, a player like tom brady on a clear day can throw for 350 against a poor pass d. at 25 on human, a great qb can still throw for 300 a game if the other team has a problem matching up. If there's any kind of weather, it usually seems like they'll average low 200s. I also have the run blocking and ability a little higher for the cpu as I found 80 rb was too dominant for human but 75 was too weak for cpu. Same with 60 and 55, i wanted to make sure great rbs on the opponents team could do some special things instead of always getting stuffed in the backfield. I just noticed over 60 really and fumbles become a problem for either human or cpu. As for defense, I lowered human awareness so dbs cant always hawk passes and lbs cant always KNOW THE RUN IS COMING. I put cpu at 60 because I wanted more of a challenge on offense for me so they stop runs and passes more often. I honestly might move this up to 65 and human to 25, dont know yet. Also, INTERCEPTIONS at 25 is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. IT seems like a a sweet spot. At 20 or 30 it gives more interceptions then at 25. I cant explain it, I just know it to be true through research. If you do want to use this set, I HIGHLY SUGGEST not moving any slider more or less than 5 or 10 points until you have ALREADY checked those two spots. You dont want to move too far or you dont see how strong the slider is compared to others.

Very interesting observations...I wouldn't say I've come to the same conclusions on which sliders impact which side (although I haven't been able to confirm some of my own observations either), but I'm glad to see someone else is in my camp by testing sliders without them being the same.

What I'm still not sure about is how the USER sliders impact the game. It's obvious that the CPU sliders are the more "powerful" sliders in the game. For instance, when you change the QBA slider, you can clearly see it impact both sides. Even between 30 and 50 you see a big difference. So, I've always treated the CPU sliders as the master sliders and I adjust these first. Where I've spent most of my time is trying to figure out how the USER sliders work. For the USER D, they do impact the gameplay, but it's SO slight, and it makes it hard to figure out who it's impacting (especially when there are so many variables in this game that can impact the gameplay). At first, I thought the way you did...the User D would impact the USER (duh). But after lots of testing, I personally saw the opposite...if the USER D sliders were lower than the CPU D sliders, I won games more easily than when they were higher. Because the impact was so slight, I could never clearly see a difference, which is why I won't ever stake my life on it, but the way the games played out, I just had a harder time beating the CPU when the USER D sliders were higher.

Regarding the USER O sliders, I honestly have no idea, because I have never seen them clearly impact either side. If I turn the QBA down 30 points, I don't see a difference for either the USER or CPU. All I've ever seen is that when I lowered them way down to like 1 or 10, the game speed slowed to a crawl. So, I just keep the O sliders the same. Same with the ST sliders...the USER ones don't seem to do squat, so I just leave them the same.

As you play out your sliders, definitely share your experience. I particularly interested in the O slider difference and if you really see conclusive evidence that the USER O sliders impact either side. Also, you made an interesting comment on the INT being at 25. I have seen multiple times that when I had sliders at an odd #, like 25 or 35, it's had unexpected results. That's all I can I say...like you, I can't explain it, but I've sometimes seen QBA at 35 actually be worse than at 30, for instance. So, I've just played it safe and kept everything on the tens (except for the CPU AWR and INT).

For now, I've been enjoying my latest slider set. I finished 8-8 in Year 1 as the Jaguars, and I'm 3-0 so far in Year 2, but two of those games I barely won, and only because with one I had a last-minute fumble recovery for a TD and the other I scored on a KR. I think the scores were 21-14 and 17-13. (I swear, sometimes I think there's some catch-up logic for the USER, because it always seems the CPU gets some penalty or turnover right when I need it most to win the game). But the run game and pass game have been really realistic for me, along with all defensive stats. I would not say it's perfect (it never will be), but I at least feel that I have to really work at winning against most teams, especially against the elite ones.

Again, the set I'm using is:

Both O Sliders = 20, 50, 50, 50, 99
User D = All 50
CPU D = 1, 50, 1, 50, 50
Both ST = 50, 50, 90, 90, 20