My Final HC09 Sliders

[picker19]

For those of you who read my earlier thread on sliders, you know that based on extensive research, I've determined that the sliders are indeed broken. However, I finally came up with a slider set that works really well for me. Don't ask why, but the CPU sliders impact the Human gameplay. They're not perfect, but they've given the best games since this game came out. For me, the issue was always my defense was too good. With these sliders, my defense is suddenly vulnerable and I have to carefully plan my play calling, plus the running game is much better (although the human run game will always be better than most CPU run games). I've played three difference franchises with these sliders over a total of 10 years, and they have made the game more of a challenge for me (finally).

Both Offenses = 40 for all sliders
Human D = 40, 40, 20, 40, 40
CPU D = 20 for all sliders
Both Special Teams = 50, 50, 90, 90, 20
Penalty Sliders = Default

[Mike3207]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

I've played three difference franchises with these sliders over a total of 10 years, and they have made the game more of a challenge for me (finally).

What sort of scores do you see with these sliders, and what record have your teams had?

[picker19]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

Game results have been varied. For instance, as the Bears with a power run offense and Cover 2 D, I had a 14-13 loss to the Steelers, I whipped the Browns 41-14, I lost in a shootout with the Seahawks 35-31 and I barely beat the Jaguars with a last minute hail mary. I've had two seasons of 7-9 and 10-6, both missing the playoffs.

As far as stats go, they're all over the place, which is good. It's still fairly easy to pass (I average 60+% in completions) but the run game is fair and my D is no longer unstoppable with a million INTs and several sacks.

The bottom line is that there are certain flaws to the game that can't be fixed with the sliders, because they are broken. I've noticed that the Human gamplay will always have an advantage. But these sliders have made the Human D more vulnerable, which is what I always thought to be the issue -- the Human D is too good. So, to date, these sliders have made my D finally vulnerable, especially if they don't have a good handle on the playbook. So, I finally have to respect the run on certain teams and fear the pass.

Also, I noticed that whoever is losing in the 3rd qtr., the losing team comes out firing on all cylinders. For instance, against the 49ers, I was up 31-0 at half time, and then the game ended at 31-28. They had me on my heels, and I suddenly couldn't score on them.

[Mike3207]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

I've seen a lot of turnovers my first 2 games with this slider set on both sides -is that to be expected?

[picker19]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

It depends...if you run plays with little to no play knowledge (or bad players), then yes, you will turn the ball over a lot. Recently in a new franchise, my starting QB got injured, and my back up had to play two games. He threw 6 interceptions. When my starter came back, in two games, he threw only 2. Same thing happened with my RBs. And the same happens to the CPU. In the end, the game has way too many INTs in general, which is why I turned both sliders down to 20. It was way worse when I had them up higher.

Once you build your team up and get their play knowledge up and get better coaching skills, it's better, as it should be.

Hope you're enjoying them. They are far from perfect, but the only ones I've found that give me some challenge and enjoyment.

[Mike3207]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

I notice the slider numbers are different between the last post of your previous slider thread and the first post of this one. Is it human defense at 20 or cpu defense at 20?

[picker19]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

Yeah, there was a typo that I corrected. All CPU D sliders should be set to 20. The Human D sliders should be 40, 40, 20, 40, 40. Keeping the INT slider set to 20 for both has kept the INTs to be more reasonable.

Just so you know, I started a Redskins franchise with these sliders. My record so far has been 6-10, then 11-5 (lost in Division playoffs), and now in my third season I'm off to a 1-3 start. So far, these sliders have kept me on my toes, obviously depending on who I'm playing.

[picker19]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

So, I just finished my third season with the Redskins. I went 6-10, which is amazing, considering it was my third season, I had great coaches, and a damn good roster. This makes me excited, because it seems my sliders are providing a good challenge (along with my house rules). So for my Redskins franchise, I went 6-10, 11-5, and then back to 6-10. I had an approval of 25, yet of all owners, he wanted me to stay, which is amazing.

After using these sliders for almost 15 seasons across three different franchises, I think I'm finally signing off on my sliders and house rules and will no longer be changing anything after 3.5 years of frustrating trial and error. So, again, here are my sliders and house rules:

SLIDERS

Both Offenses: All 40
Human D: 40, 40, 20, 40, 40
CPU D: All 20
Both Special Teams: 50, 50, 90, 90, 20
Penalties: Default

HOUSE RULES

1. Each week, I use one day to rest instead of practice (so my guys don't get a high play knowledge as quickly)
2. I only develop my staff once a year after the draft
3. I avoid the Ozzie Jones and Jack English drafts
4. During the draft, coach signings, individual scouting, etc., I do not reload if I make an unfavorable selection...I stick with my poor choice
5. When developing my staff, I focus on skill development first, I only allow one special skill a year for each coach, if they have the points, and I avoid the Performance skill unless there are no other skills open to purchase with available points
6. When beginning a career, I always create a new coach and focus that coach on one position specialty (depending on the team I'm running...if I'm going to play a vertical pass attack, I'll have a WR/TE coach; if I'm going to do a 3-4 aggressive D, I'll have a LB coach) and build up their skill development for that position as far as can and pick only one special skill that matches that position
7. I never choose the Ambition skill
8. When starting a new career, I build a playbook that's specific to the style I want to play with that team, regardless of play knowledge...this is to keep play knowledge low at first, because play knowledge is one of the top 3 reasons your team ends up kicking ***

[JeffHCross]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

When using these sliders, should we follow the instructions you mentioned in your other thread, about how to setup the sliders? Doing it in-game, deleting your profile, etc.

[picker19]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

When using these sliders, should we follow the instructions you mentioned in your other thread, about how to setup the sliders? Doing it in-game, deleting your profile, etc.

Sorry I forgot to mention that...no, you don't need to do any of that. That was an earlier theory I had that I couldn't confirm either way. Just adjust your sliders from the main menu and NOT in-game. And you probably don't need to delete your profile, but I did just to be safe. But I haven't done that a while.

However, I may be adjusting my sliders again (never say never, I guess). I actually captured a bunch of sim data and ran some simple formulas and when I compared my game results to that, it's clear that my sliders provide too much offense. I'm testing a new defensive slider set, while still using the same principals, to see if I can tone down the defense. I've come up with a few good results, so I hope to have more info over the next several days. But I will say that INTs are actually the biggest problem. There are still too many of them. But we'll see. The game will never be perfect, but as long as I get a challenge, I'll be happy. So more to come...

[picker19]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

When using my sliders above, I've noticed a pattern of way too much offense (too many shootouts) over a span of several years. I still am challenged by the CPU, but the games end up with 30-40 points by both teams, usually.

What I've learned is that I finally got a great running game from both the CPU and Human, but the pass defense is awful. However, when turning down the QB Accuracy, then the INTs and knockdowns pick up and so do the dropped passes. According to my simmed stats, a team averages 1 INT a game, 4 Knockdowns, and 3 drops a game. When I lowered QB accuracy to 30, I got much more realistic scores, but those stats above jumped for most games. The trick is to make the QB throw more errant passes without causing more INTs, knockdowns, etc.

So right now, I'm playing with just the defensive sliders to see if I can make the D better on Pass D without sacrificing the run game. I'll post my findings, but it may take a while.

[JeffHCross]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

Just wanted to pop in and say that I'm enjoying your sliders a lot. I let the CPU do all my playcalling, and just sitting back and watching the games have been very enjoyable. You're probably right about there being a little too much offense, but I'm okay with that right now. Maybe I'll have a different opinion after a season or two, but with just a few games under my belt, I've enjoyed them.

[JeffHCross]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

Also, meant to ask ... since you've noticed that various options seem to have impacts they shouldn't, have you noticed any unintended consequences of changing the Quarter length? I'd really prefer not to play 15 minute quarters (even though the CPU is playing for me), but I didn't want to accidentally influence anything else.

[picker19]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

First off, I'm glad you like them. You're the first person to give me some feedback, so I'm glad someone else has found them satisfying.

Second, no, I've never played with the quarter length. While this game is certainly sensitive to various changes, I doubt changing the quarter length would impact anything. But you never know!

Actually, I've had a very frustrating experience testing out some new slider ideas. Again, this game has showed me how finicky it is. For instance, I was testing out a set and almost at the end of the game, the game crashed. So, I rebooted, didn't touch the sliders, loaded the career up, and started the same game with the same teams. However, all of sudden all the players were hyper..***nning around like they had rockets on their backs. I was floored. I have seen this before WHEN YOU CHANGE THE SLIDERS, but I didn't touch them...the only difference is that for the first game I played, I changed the sliders on the main menu, but for the second game, I just loaded up and went right into it (same sliders and all). So, either the game reacts differently depending on when you change the sliders, or the game decided to ramp up the game speed for this particular match. Either way, I have no idea.

Another interesting experience, which proves my original theories, is that when you "disconnect" sliders from each other (for instance, if you make the Human INT = 30 and the CPU INT = 1), it can completely change the game. You'd think INTs wouldn't impact game speed or which team has an advantage, etc., but it does.

In the end, I may just go back to my original slider set. Even though there is too much offense, it at least remained challenging and fun. But I'm not giving up yet. I've noticed some interesting game play when putting the QA (for both) down to 30. The pass game becomes much more toned down, however INTs end up through the roof on my set. So, I'm testing various sets with the CPU INT = 1 and the Human INT = anything other than 1. You'd be amazed how just changing these two sliders completely tones down the offense AND the INTs. Only problem is that it screws up the run game (go figure). But when I've increased the RB, it makes the Human game play much better, but when I increase the Human INT to 40, the CPU is suddenly kicking ***, and on and on we go. No wonder why I get in such a bad mood after testing sliders for hours!

The hardest thing about testing these sliders is that you really have to play through the entire game and play several games, because each game can be a bit different. So, it's slow going, but I'll get to the bottom of this...eventually.

[JeffHCross]

Re: My Final HC09 Sliders

I'm a stats-first guy, so bear with me. You mentioned that you compared your in-game statistics to simmed games, and you found that Knockdowns, INTs and the score wasn't lining up. But you didn't mention completion percentage. When I was watching the game last night (Saints versus Texans), I felt like the completion percentage was about right (though I didn't actually look at the numbers). The thing that stood out to me was the YAC. I know you said that this set would be heavy with broken tackles, and it is. But I wonder if there's a slight modification there that could be made.

I know the NCAA/Madden series had a big problem with the defense taking wrong angles to the ball carrier around the 09 / 10 time period. It's obvious that problem is in this game. But I do wonder if your sliders have amplified it slightly, because I see a lot more big runs / "how'd he not get tackled" moments than I'd expect.

All that being said, it was a high scoring game but I still enjoyed it.