Knowledge from the past

[Mike3207]

I'll be making some posts where I'll be listing information from the past that was given by the developers but might be lost on the furthest pages of this forum. I'll start with what Dan Bekins said on progression/regression:

Now for progression.

1. Progression is based on a player's actions in practice and the game.

A cool thing about HC09 is that we use the SuperSim engine for all CPU practices and games. SuperSim is a *very* detailed simulator, so essentially every action on the field is simulated for every player.

Each time a player makes a play, he will receive some progression points based on that play. For example, say a running back makes a ten yard run and breaks two tackles along the way. The run might contribute points to his speed and carry ratings, while the broken tackles might contribute to his trucking rating.

Once a player accumulates enough progression points for a given rating, he will level-up that rating by 1 point and start over. All players have a maximum potential for each rating, and once they reach that potential they will no longer level-up regardless of how many progression points they accumulate.

There are a few things that affect how many progression points a player will receive for each action.

Players with high learning abilities will receive more progression points. These guys will reach their potential very quickly.

Players that report to a skilled coaching staff will receive more progression points. The point multiplier is actually compounded as you walk up the chain of coaches.

For example, a running back reports to the RB coach, then the offensive coordinator, then the head coach. If all three coaches are highly skilled with running backs, he will progress extremely quickly.

I didn't work on the progression system, but from what I've seen it works pretty well. You will be able to verify this for yourself pretty easily, as a player's full progression status is always available on his player card.

2. Regression happens at the end of each season, and is based on a player's age, career phase, learning ability, and career health. Basically a player's ratings and max potentials will be lowered a bit once he gets toward the end of his career.

I can not speak to how this plays in the actual game as I did not personally work on this feature. I do know it was a high priority on Josh's list of thing to get right, though.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

Player Value

A brief discussion on player value, a key component on how the CPU evaluates personnel to pursue in FA and the Draft, also by Bevins.

1. Essentially, the CPU will assign a value to all available players and compare them against one another. "Player value" is a third type of rating we use in addition to the raw Madden player abilities and system-dependent player grades.

Player value takes everything into account you could possibly imagine.

First, it scales each player's grade based on his position. For example, a 99 overall QB is much more valuable than a 99 overall kicker.

Second, it scales players with the same position relative to each other in a non-linear way. For example, a 60 overall QB is not 60% as valuable as a 99 QB (in fact, a 60 QB is basically worthless). So the value mapping is actually a curve, and when you look at your Team Roadmap you'll see a huge dropoff in value from the top-tier players to the lower-tier guys.

After that, a ton of other things are factored in to tweak the value such as projected cap hit, playbook knowledge, etc.

Once the team has evaluated every single player, they need to decide who will add the most value to their team. "Added value" is the secret sauce that drives almost all of the logic in this game.

As an example, let's say you're the Colts and Tom Brady is on the FA auction block. Do you acquire him? No, because although Brady has a high value, he has essentially zero *added value* to your team. Your money is much better spent somewhere else.

The trick is that added value encapsulates both value *and* need, so teams will always go after the guy who is the best available relative to their current needs.

During the draft, the player who fits this description might not be expected to go for several picks, and this is when the CPU will trade down.

2. The CPU will go after a player in proportion to how much value he adds to their team. As per above, teams with more need will be willing to pay more.

Also, each team has a philosophy as to how it spends its money. Some teams will go all out for their top need, while other teams will try to distribute their money among all of their needs.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

Thanks to the person who gave this 5 stars-one of the difficulties going forward will be to identify information the readers wouldn't already know.This one is a quote from Lead programmer Dan Bevins on how much impact the skills and special skills have on gameplay:

A level 5 skill will add anywhere from 5 to 10 points to its associated player ratings (one or two points per level). For special skills that apply to ratings, you will also get somewhere between 5 and 10 points.

This definitely has a big impact on gameplay.

[Byron Yatch]

Re: Knowledge from the past

dont know who 5 starred it but Im gonna join the bandwagon. This is great stuff!

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

Thanks Byron, much appreciated. This post will be a quote from Josh Looman about learning-what sort of role a player should have based on their learning score:

That's basically how we defined it:

90-99: Elite. Learns very quickly. Peyton manning, Brady, etc.

80-89: Very quick learner. Real world case study: Frank Gore.

70-79: Fringe learning ability. Enough to be a starter and learn the playbook, but just barely. Real world case study: Julius Peppers.

60-69: Below Average Learner. May learn enough to play in spots, but can and will make mistakes. I don't care what a guy's potential is...if his learning is in the 60s or below, he will take a long time to get there. Real world case study: Dallas' Roy Williams.

0-59: Poor learner. Will take forever to learn the playbook and will ultimately not see much playing time because of it. My suggestion is to make speedy WRs with poor learning your returners. Real world case study: Vernon Davis.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

How your coaching staff gets points

This will be a quote on how your coaching staff gets points. I see from the original thread that Josh addressed trainers in a separate thread, so I'll look to see if I can find that and add it in a separate quote.A quote from Josh on how your staff gets points:

HC: Wins/losses (more if you beat a good team or rival), great performances from team and individuals.

Off. Coordinators: Wins/losses (more if you beat a good team or rival), great performances from team and individuals on their side of the ball.

WR,RB,QB, O-Line, D Line/ LB/ DB : Wins/losses (more if you beat a good team or rival), great performances from the players/group they specifically coach (QB coach only gets points if QB does well, while o-line coach gets credit for a great running day, passing day, etc)

ST coach: Wins/losses (more if you beat a good team or rival), great performances from returners, kickers, punters.

GM: wins/losses, great trades and draft picks. They get points when your team drafts a player with a good overall and good potential. If you draft a sleeper in the 7th round with 95 potential, he gets a lot of points. They also get points when they make a great trade where they essentially 'win' in the exchange.

Ok-no word on trainers getting points that I can see so far. There was some discussion on how players recover health, but I'll address that in a further post. I'll also add I've heard your OC/DC will get more points if you give them control of that side of offense/defense.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

Players recovering health

A quote from Josh on how it is calculated players recover health:

Every player gains back fatigue and health every day and the amount they gain back is directly tied to their stamina, toughness and injury ratings. This is also modified by the skill of their trainers.

When you hold a player out of practice, you are effectively allowing him to gain back the full amount of health/fatigue he normally would. If you were to allow him to practice, he would potentially get even more fatigued and banged up, negating any health/fatigue he gains back.

Also word on handling serious injuries:

We handle career ending injuries a little differently.

When players receive serious injuries, how long their rehab takes depends on their age, toughness, trainer etc.

Some players can be out 18 months with a very serious injury.

When those players return, they'll lose some career health at that body part and if it gets too low, they'll take that into serious consideration when contemplating retirement.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

Getting fired

This upcoming quote is from Dan Bekins. He seems to indicate it is total approval which is behind the logic to fire someone, not owner approval like I always thought.

Your overall approval is what matters when it comes to getting fired. Winning games should impact approval much more than any other decisions you make, so if you go 3-13 you will probably be in trouble regardless of what you do in the off season. Likewise, if you go 13-3 it should turn all your doubters to your side by the end of the season.

There is a bit of leeway built into your first season. Just make sure not to promise big things when the owner asks how you'll fare that year.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

Developing position coaches

Ok, this is a dialogue between developer Chris Staymates and a member of this forum on developing position coaches:

When you're developing staff other than your OC and DC (STC, QBC, RBC, WRC, OLC, LBC, DBC, DLC) does it do any good putting points into the 'Play Call' and 'Strategy' categories?

CHRIS-I'd focus on Special Skillls and Development Skills for these coaches.


If you don't call plays yourself and use 'Ask Coach' or 'Dismiss' to call plays, isn't it the OC or DC making the play suggestions/play calls, not these others coaches?

CHRIS-Yes.

I'm also curious to know if any 'adjustments' (press, release, shift dl pinch/spread/left/right, etc.) are ever made on plays by these other coaches if you don't personally select to activate them yourself?

CHRIS-Nope.

Also about playcall for HC:

what about the play call upgrade for your own coach? what effect does that have on the game considering you call your own plays anyway.

CHRIS-That will factor in with your coordinators when they call the play.

[Byron Yatch]

Re: Knowledge from the past

I stopped making 7th round draft picks a couple careers ago, but with this "new" information coming to light, ima start drafting in the 7th. If knew he made more points getting 90+ potential people in the 7th, I would have focused more on it!


Great stuff man. I know its not "new" but it is to me. I wasnt here when this stuff started being posted, I joined in april!

I still gotta read some more of this stuff but I liked it all cause I knew it was gonna be premium info. keep em coming, glad someone knows where this stuff is on older topics!

[phenomenal_waffles]

Re: Knowledge from the past

So to clarify something, your head coach's playcalling attribute also has an effect on playcalling, even if you have it set to where your coordinator calls the plays?

And also, if you have the philosophy set to your coordinators calling the plays, but you still manually call the plays, does it count as the coordinator calling the plays or is it always the head coach if you manually call them?

Sorry if those are confusing questions.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

So to clarify something, your head coach's playcalling attribute also has an effect on playcalling, even if you have it set to where your coordinator calls the plays?

And also, if you have the philosophy set to your coordinators calling the plays, but you still manually call the plays, does it count as the coordinator calling the plays or is it always the head coach if you manually call them?

Sorry if those are confusing questions.

From what I understand about Playcall-it increases the Game AI playcalling ability. The plays in Ask Coach are better, and your coordinators call better plays.I fully upgrade it just because I do know that the plays in Ask Coach will be significantly upgraded, and I still use it quite a bit.I also suspect the play selection improves in Ask Success, but I have no information on that.

If you manually call all the plays-it's you calling the plays. The coordinator only calls the plays that you choose not to call. Thus, if you choose to call all your own plays-there's no need to upgrade Playcall.

About your position coaches-they only need Playcall if you plan to make them coordinators at some point. There's a further statement from Josh that makes this abundantly clear-I'll include this in a couple of minutes.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

Further on playcall

Ok, here's a further statement on Playcall from Josh. I'm a bit confused on the 3rd statement-I think that one was answered on the basis of the OC having control of plays and calling the plays.

Josh, I have a handle on the rest of the game except "playcalling". It seems I can't get my head around this part of the game. I need you to elaberate on my questions.

I don't call any of my plays. I let my OC/DC call the plays.

1. My OC is a maximum level 2 in playcalling. Can he go any higher in levels later on in his career, or is level 2 the most he will achieve?

JOSH-Two is the highest he'll achieve.

(I asked this question because this tells me I would need to hire another OC if his maximum playcalling is level 2.)

2. Since my OC can only max out at level 2 on playcalling, is his playcalling going to be eratic and sub par play calling?

JOSH-It won't be great.


3. My Head Coach (me) is a level 5 in playcalling. What effect does my playcalling have on my OC/DC? Does having a level 5 also make my OC/DC a level 5 in playcalling?

JOSH-That doesn't really have much of an effect on your team. That's used if a head coach is fired and he becomes a coordinator of another team.

4. Do I need to apply playcalling points to asst. coaches? I figured i didn't need to since they don't call plays.

JOSH-If you ever plan on promoting them, you'll need them to be ready. If not, no.

Josh, I need your help in really explaining this part so i'm not guessing. I what to get the full impact of the game, but i can't if i don't know how this was intended.

Thanks.

I think under the proviso of the OC/DC calling plays, you don't need to upgrade Playcall for your HC on that part of offense/defense. It'll go by the OC/DC's playcall rating.Your playcall rating only comes into play if you bring the Game AI into playcalling-like with Ask Coach.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

Offense breakdown

I was looking for any information I could find on the strategy skill. I didn't find that, but I came across a discussion of the base offenses and defenses by Adembroski(hope I spelled that right):

Realistically, there isn't THAT much different from one offensive "system" to the next. They all use a bit of everything.

There is a basic overriding concept that really defines each though. The spread system, as it's name implies, seeks to spread out the defense and make individuals responsible for a larger area, both in the passing and running game. The most recent example of a team using a "pure" spread offense (although it was certainly modified for the pro game) was the Buffalo K-Gun of the Jim Kelly days.

The major difference between most singleback offenses and most spread offenses is the method of stretching. The spread offense utilizes more horizontal spread, where a singleback takes a page from the West Coast offense and spread the field vertically.

An example of a horizontal stretch is a 4 WR seams play, which sends 4 wide outs deep to different parts of the field, sideline to sideline, in an effort to force one of three deep defenders to make a choice. Facing a 2 or 3 deep defense, someone should always be open.

An example of a vertical stretch is having 3 receivers to one side of the formation... for example, a split end fly, a TE bench, and a tailback flat. Most defenses will only have two levels of coverage... short and deep... so someone will have to make a choice... the quarterback simply needs to pick out the receiver not being covered of the three (if the defense does rotate so that there are three levels of coverage, this generally means the other side of the field is yielding single coverage on a deep route).

The West Coast offense as a seperate entity is dead. The WCO originated a lot of the concepts used in the modern game by all offenses, and it's really folded back into the rest of the league. Nothing really separates it other than maybe you could call it a 'balanced' offense compared to the rest. West Coast teams are far more likely to use base personnel (2 WRs, 1 TE, 2 RBs) than most. Where as a Spread offense seeks to get 3rd and 4th cornerbacks on the field and exploit less talented (and smaller) defenders, the WCO offense seeks to keep base defensive personnel on the field and exploit matchups with linebackers by using athletic TEs and RBs with good receiving skills. The true defining aspect of the WCO is spreading the ball out among all five eligible receivers. One need only look to the Favre lead Packers of the mid '90s to know that the WCO throws the ball deep as much as anyone else.

Vertical... more of a philosophy than a system, this is simply the mentality of a slugger in baseball... go for the long ball... you'll strike out more, but you'll hit it a mile when you do make contact.

[Mike3207]

Re: Knowledge from the past

Defense breakdown by Adembroski:

Defensively, unlike offense, there is a massive difference between systems.

The basic overriding concept behind the 3-4 is the ability to send a rusher the offense can't identify before the snap. Having only 3 linemen, however, requires 3 VERY strong linemen that can cover 2 gaps rather than 1. The 3-4 will generate more pressure on opposing quarterbacks for two reasons: First, the offense doesn't know where the 4th rusher is coming from. Second, the defense has a lot more flexibility in zone blitzing. If, however, offenses are able to control the defensive linemen and get to the second level in the running game, the 3-4 is not equipped to adjust well.

The 4-3 is a very straightforward offense that asks it's linemen to only handle one gap. 4 linemen are more capable of controlling blocks, leaving linebackers free to make tackles. The defense doesn't have any glaring weakeness, but doesn't have the pass rush strengths that the 3-4 has.

The 46 is used by almost every team in the league to a limited extent. It uses a lot of the same themes as the 3-4, but takes them to an extreme. It is purely based on pressure. It is succeptable to a quick strike attack, and will give up more than it's share of big plays.

Where as the 46 is more of a formation than a system, the Cover 2 is more of a play package than a system. It utilizes the 4-3 formation, and the primary difference between it and your standard 4-3 defense is the dependancy on a 2 deep coverage scheme rather than cover 3, which most teams rely heavily on. Cover 2 is an extremely effective coverage when the players are disciplined and talented. On the line, the system acts much like a 3-4, with a nose who plays in two gaps, and a 3-technique tackle who is essencially a designated pass rusher. It is primarily a bend-but-don't-break defense, forcing the offense to perform perfectly to gain a moderate amount of yardage and never giving up the big play. The idea is that eventually the offense will make a mistake, and the defense will capitalize. The biggest threat to a cover 2 is a talented TE, but this can be neutralized by disrupting his release at the line and throwing off the timing of the play