You all know I love head coach 09....

[tarek]

The last 2 posts with inputs from mrs and cutter have just added more value to this already valuable thread.

Thanks alot guys. I think I remain solid in that I'll wait to see if madden 14 builds on the HC aspects of the game. Or maybe even a HC14 gets released. Or next option is to reconsider buying madden 13 at a later stage. Like cutter said, if a patch allows for a true coach mode and not insist on the control of the QB then that will be a huge win IMO.

[Byron Yatch]

Just so people know, Coach mode is already planned to be fixed in ONLINE ccm through a patch, They just dont know if they can get it to apply to OFFLINE CCM.

Yes, a lot of things were taken out, but many that I read in that list were for the better and not the worse. Madden has always been too accessible to change the ratings and what not. It doesnt allow for a true, ONE SIZE FITS ALL system, if EVERYONE is changing the roster. IT could cause SERIOUS crashes and problems online at least if everyone didnt have the exact same roster(at least in their own leagues).

I understand for offline it shouldnt be a big deal to use your own customized roster. You're the only one playing, you should have as much control as you feel necessary. But just know that they really did try to make this game better at PLAYING ITSELF. By that I mean teams wont pick players up that dont fit their scheme. They cut vets that arent gonna have a higher ceiling than a rookie they just drafted who has more time to progess.

When it comes to trading in the draft, I always preferred head coaches packages to trying and scheming the cpu with what I wanted to give them. This makes it harder to screw a team just so you can get what you want. Now you have to give fair market value(or be able to) in order to even talk to them. Thats realistic to me.

Yes, this game has flaws that set all the usual suspects on a raging temper tantrum(by that I mean the usual customers used to the way they like to play). TRUST ME, they've heard you all and they know they might have made a few mistakes in judging what was imperative to the build and what wasnt.

But you have to see madden as a 3 year plan now, no longer simple roster update installments with gimmicks. They know where they're headed with this game and they just ran out of time. Some things are inexcusable to the regular customers but change is inevitable.

Give it time and a good hard run through. You will see that EVEN WITHOUT THOSE THINGS MENTIONED, you are getting a superior product to anything we've gotten in years. Since last generation 2k5 to be honest....(and yes, I always thought 2k was better than madden once it came on the scene for dreamcast so you know Im a heavy handed critic!)

[Byron Yatch]

As for the passing game attributes being irrelevant if you have to press the button, thats a misconception. The ONLY attribute that doesnt really get affected by human use(for cpu players only really) is AWARENESS. Every other attribute effects what you're doing with whatever character. And to be honest, thats only because you might pick a different receiving option than the cpu would have with that person...

And honestly, I think even awareness mattters cause Ive seen with a ryan mallet I can fit a pass in where I want it cause of his 98 throw power, but his accuracy changes how on target it is, and his awareness SEEMS to change how well he throws it based on the coverage in the area. IE, if your guy is inbetween zones and you bullet it, he should get it there easily based on his thp. But if its like a man zone, he might not be able to understand the coverage and throw it in a spot where a defender has a better chance at it.

Yes, coach mode is a much better experience if you truly want to see how well players can play themselves. But to think just because you're involved changes how the accuracy ratings are affected is unreasonable.

The only thing a human playing will really OVERRIDE is awareness because its based on your personal knowledge of football and what to do instead of the player on your team. Every other rating is very effective at changing outcomes of scenarios...

Just from my experience, I could be wrong.

[Purplepower_NC]

Byron...well put on the last two post.

[cutter73]

Quote: Originally Posted by Byron Yatch

Yes, coach mode is a much better experience if you truly want to see how well players can play themselves. But to think just because you're involved changes how the accuracy ratings are affected is unreasonable. The only thing a human playing will really OVERRIDE is awareness because its based on your personal knowledge of football and what to do instead of the player on your team. Every other rating is very effective at changing outcomes of scenarios... Just from my experience, I could be wrong.

True enough. Like I said, if you find a QB with a good arm and accuracy, then he's going to perform well. If you were replying to my comment there, I never said that accuracy would change based on my playing. or, at least it wasn't what I meant to say if that's how it came across.

But, for me, the awareness is the main thing anyway. My problem with having to throw the ball is that I can pass on the top QB's in a draft and find some guy late who has good power and accuracy later in the draft and pick him up cheap. If his awareness is low, well, it doesn't really come into play anyway, so why bother looking at it? If I wasn't throwing the ball, I couldn't get away with that kind of thing, and QB's would be harder to come by for me.


Maybe it's a personal preference thing on my part. My gaming background is largely role playing games, so while I get into doing things myself in Superstar Mode because I'm playing the role of a player, it bothers me when I have to step out of my role as the head coach to do anything on the field. It bugs me when I have to snap the ball or make my own kicks believe it or not, but I can live with those without too much problem.

I'm glad to hear about the patch in for auto-throw for online though. That gives me hope that they might work it out for offline play. Online really isn't my thing at all, and is part of my (admitted) pessimism towards EA. They seem to be moving more and more towards online players, which is fine, but I just have zero interest in online play for a variety of reasons. Same with modes like Ultimate Team which you mentioned, just not my thing I suppose.

On a completely unrelated note, since you have the game, I would like to ask a couple questions if you don't mind about the changes.

Have they fixed the punt returns? As in punt return blocking. It's been horrible for a long time, and I keep hoping they get around to fixing that.

Is the presentation better this year? I couldn't stomach the commentary or anything the last couple years. I know they hyped a lot of changes, but, well, EA hypes a lot of things year in and year out.

Have you gotten far enough into your career to be able to comment on how player progression is working out? I know they changed that a lot, but I'm mostly interested in how well players progress for CPU teams now.

Regardless of whether I get it or wait another year or so, it's nice to hear about the game from someone who has actually skipped years in Madden the same way I have rather than from a fanboy. Reading you were disappointed in a lot of previous versions like I was makes me a lot more willing to believe that Madden might just be on the right track again at least, even if we don;t come to the same conclusion about getting this years version.

[Byron Yatch]

Ive been playing a lot of madden ultimate team this year because its 10x better than its ever been. But Its also led to a new gripe. The ea servers arent extremely reliable so it has the possibility of interfering in games.

I myself am very similar, Id love to just coach and watch. I know how to play madden so well that no computer REALLY has a chance against me(like most seasoned madden players). So I fully understand that gripe, as well as the kicking and punting. Im just happy they brought back stick kicking so Im dealing with it.

As for Punt returns and kick returns, it really depends on your team and the team you're playing against this year. Ive versed some teams I couldnt get any yardage on punt returns(fair catch or tackled once caught). I also versed other teams I could get 2 punt return tds in a row with a fast enough return man(like B Banks from the redskins, totally nasty return man).

It depends on the return man, the blockers and the kickings teams defenders. IF theres a matchup problem for your team, you will have to fair catch or get tackled fairly early in every return unless lucky. If you have the better players though, with proper stick movement and use of R1 or RB(cover ball/slow down), you can take back every kick. Thats not to say you WILL take everyone back, just that its possible for someone who's a master at it.

Also, the level of difficulty is another factor. You will get return td much more frequently on rookie than all madden. Pro is fairly realistic, all pro is most realistic for seasoned players. All pro is every slider at 50. Also, I play on very slow speed because I feel it plays better. I dont touch any other slider really because I want it to be based on ratings. I dont want to make fast people faster or slow people slower, I just want an even proportion of difference which makes speed thresh hold 50 for me.

Presentation is much better. Its limited in madden ultimate team, but in career, its much more focused on you and your team. It knows what situation you are in the season. It knows rivalries and last years result if the two teams faced each other. Replays after play can be discombobulating at first, as they jump through 3 different views to try and get the best view of what happend. But if you make a highlight(choosing the angle and everything), they look uber realistic. Regular instant replay is still as good as ever if you pause the game to rewatch the last down.

Superbowls actually feel important and sounds are amazing. The crowd knows when to get loud and when to quiet down for the most part. Sometimes on offense its actually important to quiet down the home crowd to calm the moment down and think clearer(like down 7 with 2 mins left or what not).

The ending presentation for a superbowl victory is sick. Each team has a hof or maybe its just one hof chosen at random that has the trophy and walks through 2 rows of your players touching it. Then your mvps and your coach are with goodell on a stage of some sort with the hof being presented the trophy. You see the opposing team sulking. your team is going nuts tackling and sliding to the ground with each other. Confetti is falling from the sky. Its awesome.

Im not gonna lie to you guys though, I havent played enough of career mode to comment on the progression. I believe the level of difficulty matters when it comes to cpu progression though. That and if you practice or not before the game every week. I believe if you dont practice, NEITHER WILL THE CPU. Im basing this ASSUMPTION on the fact that head coach had a copy cat system and the same people are in charge of this madden.

In that, Im saying that if you're not practicing, the cpu wont be given an extra edge as if it is. I also believe that if you are practicing, the cpu will practice as well. I could however be completely wrong on this assumption. Some have complained that you'll lose a lot of 90+ players at positions like cb after a couple years and it takes a while for created draft players a while to reach potential. That may be tweaked some in the first patch they drop.

I personally dont have a problem with the talent level across the league dropping overall-wise when it could be as simple as those players being viewed in MY PHILOSOPHIES, not their teams(an idea kicked around as to why you never see a lot of+90 cbs on other teams). If im looking at a man coverage ball hawk cb and my philosophy is zone coverage cb, OF COURSE he wouldnt be a 90+, he doesnt have high enough ratings in the correct attributes... But thats just an educated guess by some of the players on these boards...

Commentary is 2 white guys so its not gonna have a lot of personality. But they do make up with chemistry and depth of knowledge. Its phil simms(sb qb from the LT giants ) and jim nantz, from cbs, one of the better teams in the booth we have in real life. But they definitely add a different dimension to it, prolly needs another year to polish it out, but for their first year, its not bad at all really. This was the first time two madden commentators were in a full booth together watching gameplay at the same time.

As I pointed out earlier in the topic, ea sports signed a license with nfl films to use their ENTIRE LIBRARY OF FILMS to steal sounds from the game and the crowds. Crowds feel more dynamic, as if they're actually watching the game and not just there yelling for no damn reason all game. They dont really have any fan cut scenes or even half time show(something tragically still missing from nfl 2k5) but they do replay some key moments(not plays but cut screens) and then they do a rundown of the stats.

At the end of the game you'll see some of the best plays of the game and then you can share your stats on facebook or twitter. You can create 10 highlights for each game until you run out of space on your hard drive.

Its the first step in the right direction, not perfection. And trust me, I share your sentiment with online gaming. I dont wanna play other people often unless I know them personally. And Ive already found a gripe because of this necessity to be online for ultimate team mode. I have pictures of games I was up(big usually) against the cpu and because their server or my internet dropped with as little as 45 seconds left in the 4th, I lost a game on all my card's contracts, got no coins to buy new packs, nor my win. That will piss you the hell off once it happens!!!!!!!! And unfortunately its happened 5 times already in like 4 days....(only played on 3 of those days though so 3 days).


More than happy to answer any questions, so anyone with them, ask away. Better to make an informed purchase then to blindly trust someone on the internet or the company that makes the game... I'll prolly start playing connected careers once the new roster drops on tuesday(today in phoenix az as IM writting this) or wed this week before the giants cowboys game kicks off the season.

[tarek]

I think its really great that you guys value the same things that I do in video games. I love that HC09 has brought me to this forum and opened up a brand new sport like American football.

And finally, this topic is utter gold to get some insights and inputs from well respected and knowledgable gamers/fans, just like cutter said, and not fanboys.

And on another note, I only recently heard about this show called Hard Knocks. Holy f-ing sh1t! It's just making me love the NFL more and more. I can't believe I never stayed in close contact with this sport! And I don't know about others who've watch hard knocks, but that show (with its awesome music) makes me just want to tackle/hit random people on the train. That's because I've been watching it on my iPhone on my way to work, and getting pumped up at the same time!

[Byron Yatch]

Watch the jets season of hard knocks(I think season 6, aka last year). Some of the funniest things Ive ever heard were in that season. Rex Ryan is the funniest coach ever!!!!