I don't get it...

[Cavicchi]

First off I have to say this is my favorite football game. Nothing is perfect, so the following "issues" are presented in an honest way without trying to degrade the game.

I don't get it (1) Why is Brandon Marshall at age 26 regressing?! He had a higher OVR and potential last season, and he played in every game as number 1 WR. We won the Super Bowl and was undefeated all year. Marshall went from 93 potential to 91, OVR of 91 to 88.

I don't get it (2) Why does Calvin Johnson go from 90 OVR to 84 OVR following year in which he was "hurt in practice" (out for season) and suffered a mild concussion?

I don't get it (3) Rams sign their number 1 pick (23rd) LT potential of 97 with starting season OVR of 94 to a 5 yr 10 mil contract. I try to sign my LT number 1 pick (32nd) who has a potential of 86 and he wants more than what the Rams paid their guy! I don't sign him. Four weeks into the regular season and he still hasn't changed his lowest demand.

I think I get why these things happen, but my only explanation is game cheating.

I should add I am the Patriots and WR coach is maxed out on everything, all skills. In fact, all my coaches are maxed out on skills. Still, WRs and TEs like Marshall and Goldman regularly drop passes, and LeRon James fumbled 3 times in one game (second season) with lower than 25 carries--supersim.

I don't get it (4) I put Shawn Merriman on the trade block to see what happens. The only team interested was the Chargers. I was very surprised why there weren't offers from teams in the NFC. I looked and there were teams without any ROLB including the Cowboys, but no offers from them. Well, my team is well-stacked with quality players, perhaps too much quality, so the game is trying to even the playing field, I guess. But, if that is the case, then it's cheating!

Why is Marshall regressing? The reason I see is because I have Bellows and Calvin Johnson. Has anyone else seen Brandon Marshall regress as number 1 WR anytime before age 27? Heck, Randy Moss is still 96 OVR at age 32!

LeRon James in second year with team is averaging less than 4 yards a carry--supersim. I could accomplish that with Maroney, so who is a better HB? I don't get it!

[chiguyinthedessert]

Production is why their overall is dropping. Its a huge part of overall calculation, if a player isnt producing, they arent worthy of that high an overall, thus regression sets in. This can be due to an injury like calvin johnson, or this could be due to not putting enough stats up. Just winning doesnt mean that player(b marshall) is excelling at his position, they need stats, tds and yards and completions at wr.

Your lt costs more because your gm has a terrible contract negotiation skill level. If he is not a 4 or 5, you will sign people to larger contracts then they deserve. Always try to force rookies to take the first package. Use both the left stick AND the d pad to hold up and get to the top faster and it will force them to change their minds within 4 weeks.

Running on any sliders but byrons will not produce realistic stats for running backs. He has a picture up with ryan grant getting the rushing record on 32 carries(297 yards, AP got 296 on 30), done by the computer against his 3-2-6 colts. I suggest trying his sliders for more realistic rushing numbers while cutting down the unrealistic passing numbers(every qb throwing for 5000+ yards and 50+ tds in 2008 and the best wide receivers averaging almost 250 yards on 18 catches a game)...

Ive had the best rbs avg around 5 a carry in their best years on byron's sliders... They dont make the game harder or easier, just more realistic, stat wise. Like he said, if you use mastered plays all game then yes, you will probably still destroy most teams. Have to be diverse in your play call to get realistic games. Take advantage of times you're up and use learned and unlearned plays, only use a lot of mastered plays when you're down...

As for merriman, its harder to trade older players, unless they have a high production rating(90-100). Teams in this game are much smarter than say in madden. They evaluate a trade based on fit for philosophy, ability, age, and contract. If they dont think he fits their scheme or is worth a 1st-4th rd pick, they wont trade for him. Even if a team doesnt have any good rolbs, if they extra lolb and mlbs that are quality players, they will play them out of position. So you may have looked at rolb for the cowboys, but what about the lolb and mlb.

[tarek]

Another factor is personality. It seems more and more that personalities affect so many different aspects of the game.


Check the personality of your rookie LT. He may have a tendency to be a tough negotiator, and in addition may value himself as worth more money. Thus a factor of personality.


The drop in overall like was written previously is due to production. But can I also ask, did they drop in overall during the offseason? I really think that the 'Driven' attribute comes into play here. I believe those players who are driven retain their overalls from season to season and see minimal drops because I imagine they are still working hard over the offseason. Other laid back personalities I imagine are out relaxing, clubbing and banging groupies (I'd certainly be one of the second group )

Some of the personality traits have really been playing on my mind. Like the superstar, which I want to address in a different post.

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by chiguyinthedessert

Production is why their overall is dropping. Its a huge part of overall calculation, if a player isnt producing, they arent worthy of that high an overall, thus regression sets in. This can be due to an injury like calvin johnson, or this could be due to not putting enough stats up. Just winning doesnt mean that player(b marshall) is excelling at his position, they need stats, tds and yards and completions at wr. Your lt costs more because your gm has a terrible contract negotiation skill level. If he is not a 4 or 5, you will sign people to larger contracts then they deserve. Always try to force rookies to take the first package. Use both the left stick AND the d pad to hold up and get to the top faster and it will force them to change their minds within 4 weeks. Running on any sliders but byrons will not produce realistic stats for running backs. He has a picture up with ryan grant getting the rushing record on 32 carries(297 yards, AP got 296 on 30), done by the computer against his 3-2-6 colts. I suggest trying his sliders for more realistic rushing numbers while cutting down the unrealistic passing numbers(every qb throwing for 5000+ yards and 50+ tds in 2008 and the best wide receivers averaging almost 250 yards on 18 catches a game)... Ive had the best rbs avg around 5 a carry in their best years on byron's sliders... They dont make the game harder or easier, just more realistic, stat wise. Like he said, if you use mastered plays all game then yes, you will probably still destroy most teams. Have to be diverse in your play call to get realistic games. Take advantage of times you're up and use learned and unlearned plays, only use a lot of mastered plays when you're down... As for merriman, its harder to trade older players, unless they have a high production rating(90-100). Teams in this game are much smarter than say in madden. They evaluate a trade based on fit for philosophy, ability, age, and contract. If they dont think he fits their scheme or is worth a 1st-4th rd pick, they wont trade for him. Even if a team doesnt have any good rolbs, if they extra lolb and mlbs that are quality players, they will play them out of position. So you may have looked at rolb for the cowboys, but what about the lolb and mlb.

What makes you say Merriman is an older player? He is in his twenties!

My GM is maxed out on everything! Thus, your theory doesn't make sense to me, especially when my over 90 potential rookie LG signed a "very cheap contract." Marshall is no longer a 91 potential, instead, now he is 88! And, why is it he doesn't produce? You know why. the game AI decides who does what.

I just signed a kicker with 99 kicking power, and you know what? He kicks same distance as Gostkowski! Gostkowski has kicking power of....87! It's all about what the game wants to happen, in my opinion. I've drafted guys based on the English chart here and used the same Team Philosophy. However, they usually come with potential ratings lower than what the chart shows, even though I have the same team Philosophy for position in question. You sound as though you believe this game operates in a structured concept based on an "honest" AI. This is a Madden game and since when has Madden operated on real honest calculations? If this game did operate on real honest calculations, you wouldn't need special sliders to make the running game more realistic.

Let's take my Wide Receivers who have been on the team for years, Brandon Marshall, Calvin Johnson, and Bellows to name the top 3. Who is covering these guys? How does a CB with 82 speed guard Calvin Johnson so that CJ can only manage 4 catches in the game with none longer than 12 yards? Remember, there is also Marshall and Bellows, not to mention TEs Goldman and Warfield. All that and the best offensive line in football, along with coaches that are maxed out for everything!

And by the way, I have been super simming all my games this year. I did call plays in the playoffs and super bowl, but regular season games are simmed except for the occasional time I jump in to call a play.

Both my offensive and defensive coaches are level 5 for calling plays.

Lamarr Woodley came to my team with a potential of 91, but now he is 88. Why? The game AI makes that happen because I have another LOLB with potential of 92 so it's downgrading Woodley for the other guy.

My corner backs are Revis, Juran Riley, and Antonio Cromartie--top 3. FS is Kenny Phillips. SS is Kerry Rhodes. Does that mean anything? Very little. The CPU mediocre guys, even someone who has a catch rating of 10 intercepts Brady. But, how about my guys? What are they doing? I dunno, maybe they are looking at the crowd. I trust you know the catch ratings for Revis, Riley and Cromartie, not to mention Kenny Phillips.

The game has a fantastic concept with overwhelming interest, but what happens in many other areas...

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by tarek

Another factor is personality. It seems more and more that personalities affect so many different aspects of the game. Check the personality of your rookie LT. He may have a tendency to be a tough negotiator, and in addition may value himself as worth more money. Thus a factor of personality. The drop in overall like was written previously is due to production. But can I also ask, did they drop in overall during the offseason? I really think that the 'Driven' attribute comes into play here. I believe those players who are driven retain their overalls from season to season and see minimal drops because I imagine they are still working hard over the offseason. Other laid back personalities I imagine are out relaxing, clubbing and banging groupies (I'd certainly be one of the second group ) Some of the personality traits have really been playing on my mind. Like the superstar, which I want to address in a different post.

Have you or anyone else seen Brandon Marshall regress before age 27? The AI decides what happens. The AI can make Marshall, Revis, or anyone else look bad no matter what you do. As far as I can tell, the game is decided by what the AI wants, and who it wants. Team stacked too much? destroy team by Marshall dropping passes. So what if Marshall has a 95 catch rating, just make him drop passes. Meanwhile, CPU greats with catch rating of less than 85 are doing great! But, nice guy Marshall must have had too much butter on his sandwich.

[chiguyinthedessert]

I'll admit I assumed you had a bad gm, but it also can be a player's personality. Some people wont take less than they expect to be paid. They can even walk out of negotiations if you dont agree to their terms.

As for your LT, the other factor is, you should always save before a player's contract is started to be worked on the first time. You can change the amount he seeks if you have the save before you first started negotiations. It may go up or down every time you reopen the save, but ebon found there was a range set by postion, overall, and pick number.

Its very simple though, you may think merrimans young enough but that doesnt mean other teams will. 27 means they got 5 years or so MAX(barring injury which he is injury prone) till they're really starting to decline unless they're superstars.

If he doesnt fit their scheme, they're not gonna go after him so only 3-4 teams would even look at him. If you've ruined his production, by picking plays that wont get him sacks or interceptions and fumbles or a lot of tackles, people wont want him. They'll blame him for not producing in your system instead of your system holding him back.

Production was a concept(like many) only put in head coach. ONLY THE PLAYING ENGINE IS MADDEN. The algorithms they use in this game are original. This game isnt coded the same as madden.

Also, if you know how to gameplan you can run or pass all over any team, barring them just having a better team and coaching staff than you. Ive had plenty of perfect seasons on default sliders, in a row. The reason you tweak sliders is because the game has gotten too easy or stats are unrealistic. That, or to fix a flaw in the game like a weak running game and lack of attempts based on it. Even ebon green has been known to say this game is a passing simulator. That tells you everyone knows rbs dont run well enough unless you tweak the sliders like byron did.

As for your team dropping passes, I blame your game planning. I think you need to pay attention to WHY the passes are being dropped. If your qb is under constant pressure, work on pass blocking. If you see passes going too high or wide a lot, work with the qb.

If you see a tendency to have difficulty with drop backs(standard and quick passes), work on those types of passes specifically. If he's missing more out of shot gun or play action in general, work on those types.

If you have a lot of wrs who arent at their potential, you should work with wrs every 3-5 weeks(as necessary) to build them up(same with rbs for a running game). If the wrs are high in overall, focus on catching passes once and wait two weeks. Some gameplans dont set in well for a week, so you see them more prevalent in the next game. Also weather can affect passing games DRAMATICALLY(especially snow and rain).

Also, you have to choose the type of gameplan that will work against the defense. You cant run standard passes against a heavy blitz 46 or 3-4. You cant run screens tosses or option runs against a cover 2. cant throw deep on a cover 3 or 4.

Gameplanning is HUGE in this game so know what kind of defense the opponent is running before choosing your gameplans. If you pick the wrong ones, you have bad games, plain and simple. The right ones stop their offense and attack their defense's openings or slow down their rush.

Passing teams should work on quick pass plays as soon as possible to get the qb to get the ball out faster and pass blocking to give him as much time as possible against heavy blitzing teams. Work on shot gun passes to improve deep pass accuracy. work on play action and draws against aggressive defenses or quick passes. standard passes work on medium accuracy(passes less than 20 more than 5). Screen passes focus on hbs and within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. Thats from my experience, I could be wrong.

Rushing teams should work on outside(improves tackles and tes blocking) and inside runs(guards and centers blocking) asap, as well as pitches(way outside runs) and counters(guard pulling and hb juke moves) to make sure you can be diverse in your rushes. From there, you work on run blocking or with the hb, depending on who is worse rated or if youve seen somethin(like holes missed by rbs, or blocks missed by linemen and tes). Draws should be worked on if you run a balanced offense, fb and qb runs can wait or be skipped entirely if you dont plan on running them often(although fb runs can be helpful in short and goal line situations).

The ratings are important, but they arent everything. Some plays are messed up based on learning(ie the player the ball went to didnt know the play well enough at unlearned or learned for them specifically). Some plays are messed up because you call them so often, the defense puts themselves in a play that will stop it. You have to be diverse in play calling. True goal of this game is getting every play at 1% called 100% play success. That proves you know when to call what and why.

Also, your kicker wont kick as far as he should be able to if the fg power slider isnt at 100(same with punt power for punters). People like vinitiari cant even kick it over 45 yards at 100, but thats due to his power rating. But people like serna can kick it 60 yards at 100 fg power, just wont be accurate cause his ratings arent good enough for that far a kick.

Byron explained everything in his posts. Try them out or dont, but dont complain about something he already fixed without trying them. Its been said time and again that the running game is weak in this game, that its a pass simulator. He fixed that. Try the sliders or dont, but dont just think cause you havent tried them that there is no way to fix it. A lot of your issues are caused by weather and your own poor game planning/play calling though, some of them like the contracts are issues based on how the game was made.

[tarek]

I really can't answer whether the AI evens out the playing field if you have too many good players. I don't understand how the drops in performance happens versus opposing players who are mediocre playing 'above' their stats.

Can I ask what your record is? You seem to be winning and getting to superbowls. But are you annihilating the competiton, are you winning comfortably or are you struggling through slog fests each week?

I, like you seem to, am aiming to build the most dominant teams I can. Morrow backed up by Jake Scott, McFadden and Leron James tandem, revis and juran Riley, etc etc.

It certainly is weird though, but all I can attribute it to is the fact that rarely do teams play like the 96 Chicago Bulls, who would get up for ANY team, even terrible ones.

What seems to be happening is that you've got a dominant team that is going through the motions, being a little complacent and just playing, winning and not stressing too much unless the situation dictates. On the flip side, opposing (CPU) teams are like those guys who have pumped themselves up all week to face the juggernaut. They are trying I prove themselves and thus play harder.

Sure the AI shouldn't be doing these things but it depends on what your outcomes are. If you're regularly winning games, always feel like the game is in control, recover often from tough situations, etc etc. isn't that enough?

[SloeyEZ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

First off I have to say this is my favorite football game. Nothing is perfect, so the following "issues" are presented in an honest way without trying to degrade the game. I don't get it (1) Why is Brandon Marshall at age 26 regressing?! He had a higher OVR and potential last season, and he played in every game as number 1 WR. We won the Super Bowl and was undefeated all year. Marshall went from 93 potential to 91, OVR of 91 to 88. I don't get it (2) Why does Calvin Johnson go from 90 OVR to 84 OVR following year in which he was "hurt in practice" (out for season) and suffered a mild concussion? I don't get it (3) Rams sign their number 1 pick (23rd) LT potential of 97 with starting season OVR of 94 to a 5 yr 10 mil contract. I try to sign my LT number 1 pick (32nd) who has a potential of 86 and he wants more than what the Rams paid their guy! I don't sign him. Four weeks into the regular season and he still hasn't changed his lowest demand. I think I get why these things happen, but my only explanation is game cheating. I should add I am the Patriots and WR coach is maxed out on everything, all skills. In fact, all my coaches are maxed out on skills. Still, WRs and TEs like Marshall and Goldman regularly drop passes, and LeRon James fumbled 3 times in one game (second season) with lower than 25 carries--supersim. I don't get it (4) I put Shawn Merriman on the trade block to see what happens. The only team interested was the Chargers. I was very surprised why there weren't offers from teams in the NFC. I looked and there were teams without any ROLB including the Cowboys, but no offers from them. Well, my team is well-stacked with quality players, perhaps too much quality, so the game is trying to even the playing field, I guess. But, if that is the case, then it's cheating! Why is Marshall regressing? The reason I see is because I have Bellows and Calvin Johnson. Has anyone else seen Brandon Marshall regress as number 1 WR anytime before age 27? Heck, Randy Moss is still 96 OVR at age 32! LeRon James in second year with team is averaging less than 4 yards a carry--supersim. I could accomplish that with Maroney, so who is a better HB? I don't get it!

I'll take a stab at some of these, even though it will just be guesses since I have no idea what the variables are...and speaking of variables...that there are so many variables is why a) HC is better than most other games and b) why it is so much harder to understand what seem like irregularities to you... that being said...here are my guesses...

1) Brandon Marshall, remember he was a "personality" issue when this game came out. He made TO seem like Miss Manners. It is possible...possible...that he was programmed with a bit of bias when the game came out, as he was nobody's favorite at the time, so programmed to only regress.

2) This one seems absolutely logical and reasonable to me. A season long injury would definitely degrade any player (hence all the shock over AP this year). Also, the trainer has a special skill (or maybe a reg skill can't remember) that determines the amount of OVR a player loses due to injury, so check that out.

3) Personality definitely plays a part in contract negotiations. Also, are you doing your negotiations or is it delegated? I always do my own negotiations. There are sooo many variables (I strongly believe this is a positive, not a negative to the game) that it is hard to ascertain what is happening both good and bad so this one is toughest to answer. Also, comparing your coach and the player in question is helpful as some personality traits clash.

Finally, you can have the opinion that it is "cheating" which unless you're playing on an easy level, I highly doubt it's cheating. I've never heard an argument from anyone that claims there is "cheating" AI to balance a game that held any validity. I believe there is a natural momentum swing to a team that is behind, that is prevalent in real football and I'm sure it is programmed into a football game adequately but would never consider it "cheating" as in the programming changes to "if I'm behind by 3 touchdowns, get play call and call best play against it". I'm relatively sure it doesn't happen.

Again, just guesses