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**algoody421** · 06-04-2013, 03:28 AM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

You'll notice those first 4 years and 3 sb wins, he had romeo crennel and charlie weis as his coordinators. Then they parted. After that, he ALWAYS promotes from within. Some stay longer than others.

Eric mangini and josh mcdaniels take over but mangini is gone one year later to the rival jets as you all should remember. Mcdaniels is there 3 years before he makes oc and he stays there from 2005 through 08(7 total), 2009 he coaches broncos two years gets fired. He rejoins in 2011 as a qb assistant and takes back over as oc in 2012 when obrien leaves to coach psu I think.

When Mangini leaves, Dean peas takes over for 4 years till he leaves to coach the ravens defense. these last couple years. He started there in 04 and was a position coach 2 years.

When mcdaniels left, bill obrien took over. He was a position coach 2007 and 2008 and took over oc when mcdaniels left. 09 10 and 11 he was oc. When peas left, it doesnt really show who was dc but it was matt patricia who took over.

As you can see though, coaches last with a team for around 6 years like I've said. Sometimes it takes them longer to get to oc or dc because of other candidates being kept or considered better in house. Sometimes they stay longer as an oc or dc in order to improve their chances of a hc job. Its how romeo and weiss got them, same with mcdaniels. Dean peas will get one soon enough and bill obrien is at psu like I said(took over for paterno).

This is why its called a coaching tree, because its supposed to branch out across the league and even into the college ranks. Some choose to stay in college like saban, also a bellichick disciple. Helped to lead the 1994 browns to a league best d (something like that, its on the espn parcells/bellichick tree).

If someone gets fired and you want to rehire them, sure go ahead. But you should be trying to limit coaches to 5 years max and only when THEY need the seasoning, not when you want to keep them. Shouldnt keep coordinators longer than 3 years really but you can make a case for 4 as that was bills norm. Based on the patriots(most winning team since 2001), no coach should be kept longer than 7 total unless rehired(ala mcdaniels). I still think 3(position) and 5(total at coordinator and position combined) with rare exceptions are the perfect limits though to keep careers fresh and exciting.

**Mike3207** · 06-04-2013, 10:52 AM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

It's going to take longer than 5 years to build a coordinator up. Both my coordinators are in their 6th year and they still have a lot of room to grow.

You also need to realize the CPU teams aren't necessarily going to let go of their skilled coaches. Coaches like Monte Kiffin will stay forever until they retire. You can especially expect teams like the Broncos and Giants to keep a staff together.I remember one dynasty the Giants kept both their OC/DCs as 99s until Coughlin retired in 2018, they then promoted the OC/DC.

**algoody421** · 06-04-2013, 06:47 PM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

A) The only people who will stay on a staff are the ones like Anchor, traditionalist, and loyalist. That and staples like kiffin who's a captain anyways I believe. They stay loyal to a team.

B) they may only be doing that because you never release your oc or dc/position coaches. I see coaches leave all the time but I also look at every team in the staff hiring recap. I actually see the carousel when you guys just go on to the next offseason with out doing any research.

C) If you want to continuously play with 99 coordinators and coaches, go ahead. But its not gonna be fun or challenging, and you never create a coaching tree. Thats the whole ****ing point of this game. Making coaches become hcs elsewhere so you can verse them.

D) why are you taking 6 years? What are you trying to do? Fill them completely? Why is that necessary? 3 years man, thats it, all you need. If they need any more seasoning they can get it on someone elses staff. but I had a dc hired after 2 years of exp and a dc after 1 as hcs so I dont know why you need that much time...

I'd rather see my coaches as my opponents then always on my team.

Remember, I played exactly like you people. I kept 99 coaches every year of my career, making sure to save and then restart if they left. Yeah, I did all that **** too. Its not fun and it ruins the game. Play it how you want though.

I dont give a **** what coughlin or any other coach does, this is about what I do and what bellichick does in real life. This way, you keep upgrading the league around you by developing both players and staff and then letting them loose on the league.

In real life, which is what this game is supposed to simulate, when you keep someone on your staff for 8+ years, they start to resent you as if you're holding them back. Go read up about walsh and how he felt he was held back in cincy for 8 ****ing years(I HAVE, its on espn in his coaching profile).

Do the research Ive done and then realize Im just passing on whats realistic in the nfl.

**mailman2** · 06-04-2013, 07:43 PM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

Originally posted by algoody421

A) The only people who will stay on a staff are the ones like Anchor, traditionalist, and loyalist.

B) they may only be doing that because you never release your oc or dc/position coaches. I see coaches leave all the time but I also look at every team in the staff hiring recap. I actually see the carousel when you guys just go on to the next offseason with out doing any research.

C) If you want to continuously play with 99 coordinators and coaches, go ahead. But its not gonna be fun or challenging, and you never create a coaching tree. Thats the whole ****ing point of this game. Making coaches become hcs elsewhere so you can verse them.

D) why are you taking 6 years? What are you trying to do? Fill them completely? Why is that necessary? 3 years man, thats it, all you need. If they need any more seasoning they can get it on someone elses staff. but I had a dc hired after 2 years of exp and a dc after 1 as hcs so I dont know why you need that much time...

I'd rather see my coaches as my opponents then always on my team.

Remember, I played exactly like you people. I kept 99 coaches every year of my career, making sure to save and then restart if they left. Yeah, I did all that **** too. Its not fun and it ruins the game. Play it how you want though.

I dont give a **** what coughlin or any other coach does, this is about what I do and what bellichick does in real life. This way, you keep upgrading the league around you by developing both players and staff and then letting them loose on the league.

In real life, which is what this game is supposed to simulate, when you keep someone on your staff for 8+ years, they start to resent you as if you're holding them back. Go read up about walsh and how he felt he was held back in cincy for 8 ****ing years(I HAVE, its on espn in his coaching profile).

Do the research Ive done and then realize Im just passing on whats realistic in the nfl.

Very few guys want to be a coordinator for so long. This is why you so frequently see NFL coordinators taking open jobs.

**algoody421** · 06-04-2013, 10:11 PM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

I want to also explain that Im not saying EVERY COACH and EVERY TEAM follows this specifically. There are coaches like kubiak who stayed with shannahan for 11 years as an oc on the broncos. But you dont see that AS MUCH NOW, as you did back then. People are more ambitious and better taught now then they were back then. There are more job opportunities then there used to be. Head Coaches dont last as long anymore so its kind of become custom to see coaches gone within 3 years of starting somewhere if they stall.

Its also not JUST about realism or difficulty. Its about "respecting your staff". If these were real people, and you were their coach, would you want to hold them back? No, you would want them to be able to continue to grow. Holding a position coach longer than 3 years with no intention of promoting is kinda like torture. Its like saying, yea, I know you could be a good oc somewhere but **** you. Its like the opposite of what charles ramsey did, you're keeping them hostage...

**Jail2end** · 06-05-2013, 04:29 AM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

I always avoided promoting from within because I figured my position coaches would only be good in the area they specialize in. If you upgrade a really good WR coach to offensive coordinator, how good will his potential and development be outside of wide receivers?

**john129pats** · 06-05-2013, 12:42 PM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

Interesting how they didn't even have an offensive coordinator in 2005.

**TheShizNo1** · 06-05-2013, 05:57 PM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

I build my coordinators up for about 3 maybe 4 years. I try to build their play calling up to full, the Special Skills that help players remember plays and their performance. Everything else is bonus. I promote from within if I can. I love letting go of coaches and then seeing how they do on their own, or facing them.

**Skarecrow** · 06-05-2013, 10:04 PM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

Just a side topic note...

I've got a fantastic DB coach on my redskins team. I mean fantastic. mostly potential 5, with a few potential 4, and that's without superb strategist.

Last offseason, I thought "this guy deserves a DC position!". Promoted him to DC. he had potential 1 or 2 in everything else. Seriously? what the hell. What a waste. Good thing I'd saved not too long before.

not everybody is suited to be promoted. it's the peter principle.

**Donotfeedmecroutons** · 06-06-2013, 05:48 AM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

Originally posted by Skarecrow

Just a side topic note...

I've got a fantastic DB coach on my redskins team. I mean fantastic. mostly potential 5, with a few potential 4, and that's without superb strategist.

Last offseason, I thought "this guy deserves a DC position!". Promoted him to DC. he had potential 1 or 2 in everything else. Seriously? what the hell. What a waste. Good thing I'd saved not too long before.

not everybody is suited to be promoted. it's the peter principle.

I tried to promote Emmitt Thomas (Falcons DB coach) who was like a 99 OVR to coordinator and his OVR dropped like a bad boxer. No potential or skills outside of defensive backs.

**algoody421** · 06-07-2013, 12:20 AM

Re: Evolution of a staff(patriots disection)

If you want to know who to promote, use the duntov coaching excel file I updated. You can see the whole side (offense or defense) of every coach at every position that started with the game. Its sorted by position.

But yeah, no one is going to have special skills for other positions unless they were an oc/dc/hc. They start with just skills for the position they start with. Of course its gonna drop from db to dc, he still needs to develop into a coordinator. Some people like rivera are ready to take over and develop every position, many will not be. They will be specialists in their position with potential to develop the other positions(or not).

And yes, there are some people who cant develop. With those people, I give them what they can in developing then get special skills that fit their abilities or preferred system. For instance I gave Ron Rivera(who the game says uses the cover 2) the coverage special skill. I try to fit what they do so that when they leave they can be good at their specialty.

But everyone else, I just develop as much as the development as possible(through 4, not 5). Once I finish that, I get them special skills or what not. Only thing I do is when promoting, I make sure they have enough to get the offseason seminar and then get the regular season seminar after the 4th preseason game or 1st reg season game.

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