Offical Kansas City Chiefs Thread

[Jonsco28]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Orton's no world beater but you're going WAY too far. Coming from Chicago he was known as a player who "just wins" bc he manages a game well and doesn't turn the ball over. He was replaced by Grossman to get the "stats". When he first got to Denver they had a healthy defense and they were winning (again, stats be damned). He's not a guy that can carry a team but he's not a bucket of empty stats either. He's always showed great leadership and is a team player. He'd make a good backup pretty much anywhere but Denver, and that's only bc of how things went down there for him.

Saying he has zero ability to win football games may be a bit too far, but not by much. He cannot make plays when the team needs it. He won in Chicago because of their defense and special teams. He will turn the ball over when it matters. I watched it for two years in Denver.

I agree with you that he makes a good back-up QB. If that's what the Chiefs got him for, so be it. It seems like a waste of money to me unless they are planning on keeping him. The Chiefs are probably not going to save their season and Orton will be looking to be a starting QB somewhere next year.

I guess you and I differ in what we think makes a good team leader. I really didn't see it in Orton. Is he a good guy? Sure, but just because he's liked amongst his team doesn't make him a good leader.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jonsco28

Saying he has zero ability to win football games may be a bit too far, but not by much. He cannot make plays when the team needs it. He won in Chicago because of their defense and special teams. He will turn the ball over when it matters. I watched it for two years in Denver. I agree with you that he makes a good back-up QB. If that's what the Chiefs got him for, so be it. It seems like a waste of money to me unless they are planning on keeping him. The Chiefs are probably not going to save their season and Orton will be looking to be a starting QB somewhere next year. I guess you and I differ in what we think makes a good team leader. I really didn't see it in Orton. Is he a good guy? Sure, but just because he's liked amongst his team doesn't make him a good leader.

You're still going to far. What do you think Tebow would be doing without McGahee and that defense? You can count on one hand the # of QBs that win without great other pieces to help, and even those guys can't win in the post season that way. I agree that Orton isn't someone you'd expect to step up when the other pieces have down games but even in Denver, when the defense was healthy and playing well they were winning just like they're doing now. Anyway, this is the Chiefs thread so I'll just end on that note.

[Jonsco28]

wwharton, I respect your opinion, but I just disagree and I'd gladly discuss this further with you in the appropriate thread.

Back to my original question... why would the Chiefs sign Orton? I understand that he may be a better option than Palko, but it seems like they spent a lot of money for a QB that may not have a future in KC and can't really help them this year. Are they thinking that maybe he DOES have a future in KC? Maybe they see him as a better option than even Cassel.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jonsco28

wwharton, I respect your opinion, but I just disagree and I'd gladly discuss this further with you in the appropriate thread. Back to my original question... why would the Chiefs sign Orton? I understand that he may be a better option than Palko, but it seems like they spent a lot of money for a QB that may not have a future in KC and can't really help them this year. Are they thinking that maybe he DOES have a future in KC? Maybe they see him as a better option than even Cassel.

The only reason he can't help him this year is if his hand injury is significant (I haven't heard either way). It's unfortunate he got hurt on his first freaking snap, but 99.9% of the time he could be starting for them for the rest of the year and they still have a fighting chance at the playoffs in that division. They won the division last year so insane injuries to all their stars aside, the expectations of the team were pretty high coming in. I'm sure that had something to do with it. I also could see them having a QB battle between him and Cassell who I think is equally average. And even if that weren't the case, he's a great backup. Not really that much money considering all that imo. The injury changes the perception of it all though.

[Jonsco28]

Looking at their schedule at the time that they signed Orton, I think it was a reach to think they could resurect their season. They did play well against the Steelers and they beat Chicago, but they still have to go to NYJ and host GB, not to mention travel to Denver to close out the season. They have to pretty much win out in order to have a REMOTE shot and I can't see that happening. I guess kudos to them for not throwing in the towel. I'm not saying it was necessarily a bad move, I was just trying to understand the thought process from KC's vantage point.

I think it's a lot to ask of any QB to come in and learn a new offense to the point where they can help carry a team into the post season with only four or five games remaining. Maybe that wasn't their goal. I don't know much about Ricky Stanzi, so maybe they just weren't comfortable having him as the #2 guy and nobody else.

Personally, I think Denver made a bad move in letting him go. There was a very good chance that he was going to go to a team that needed QB help (KC or Chicago) that was on their remaining schedule, which he did. How big of a nightmare would that be for Denver if by off-chance Orton came back to town and beat them, possibly keeping them out of the post season?

I have to believe that Orton is definitely going to test the FA market at the end of the season. If he stays a Chief and becomes the starter, I would love to see it. However, he will command much less money than what teams would have had to absorb had they traded for him back in August when Denver was shopping him, so interest from other teams will probably be there.

[wwharton]

They're still in the playoff hunt now. I don't think they'll make it but I didn't really think they would when the season started (in hindsight, I think if they stayed healthy they probably would have). The games you mentioned aren't as difficult as you make them seem. They SHOULD lose to GB but KC is a tough place for any team to play and has been for GB in the past. The Jets and Broncos are very winnable games. Again, I don't think they'll win out but it's still doable, and this is a couple of weeks after they went after Orton.

[Jonsco28]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

The games you mentioned aren't as difficult as you make them seem.

Umm....okay. I guess I don't see what I said to 'make them seem difficult'. They are difficult and they will be 'dogs in all of them except maybe their home game against Oakland. I don't see KC finishing better than 7-9. I think it is much more likely that they drop all four, but they very well could beat Oakland with the way they are playing. That's the only game that I might classify as 'very winnable'.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jonsco28

Umm....okay. I guess I don't see what I said to 'make them seem difficult'. They are difficult and they will be 'dogs in all of them except maybe their home game against Oakland. I don't see KC finishing better than 7-9. I think it is much more likely that they drop all four, but they very well could beat Oakland with the way they are playing. That's the only game that I might classify as 'very winnable'.

They don't have to be very winnable, just winnable. We're analyzing why they may have brought Orton in, right? Looking at their schedule at the time and the schedule/records of the other teams in their conference they had a shot at repeating as division winners and another trip to the playoffs. They still aren't out of it after beating Chicago. Whether you (or I frankly) think they'll go 7-9 or worse doesn't matter. That coaching staff needs to do whatever they can to try to get over the hump considering they're still in the race.