NBA 2K7 Review (360)

[KBomber]

Quote: Originally Posted by sdrotar

KBomber, if I had my way, there would be no scores whatsoever. In my opinion, they serve no purpose other than to draw attention away from the text of the review - where the actual information resides. "Scores" have become an Internet strawman - a construct that is purely arbitrary and offers no real value to the reader. You may be able to tell me a game is a "93" or a "96", but that's purely your subjective opinion based on what you prefer in gaming. This is not to minimize your opinion, which is wholly valid, but rather a statement explaining the vagaries of any "scoring" system. What qualifies as a "93" or "96" - to me - might be entirely different, which would render my "score" useless for you. It's a quandary in gaming journalism - if such a thing even exists in the mainstream, but I do know one thing for certain: arguing over a "score" from either side is akin to a puff of sand in a tornado; noticeable momentarily, and potentially aggravating, to be sure, but in the end, it makes no real difference at all.

Shawn, I think your response actually makes the most sense to me and is pretty much what I've said in the past on the subject and I agree with you. Like I said in my original post, you guys take time and care to give a thoughtful review and then the numeric score almost serves as a throw away.

My understanding is that the scores serve as a tool to get OS listed on sites like Gamerankings.com. While I understand that, going back to Clay's point "explain to me why fitting neatly inside the same box as IGN, Gamespot, etc... is a good thing?"

Shooting from the cheap seats, I think OS needs to determine what is more important; the consideration of the review copy or throwing a down and dirty numeric out there to get traffic. To me, if the numeric score is as important for generating traffic as is claimed, then you owe it to yourselves to make it every bit as well considered as your copy. That, to me, is the best of both worlds. One should be equally reflective of the other if it is all going to tie in together and make sense

Are numeric scores a strawman as you say? I'd be akin to agreement on that statement, but so many consumers are basing purchase decisions on those scores, without spending time with the meat of detail as offered in the text of reviews. That's where I think the responsibility element factors into my argument. Providing relevance in both elements of the review will just help to lend that much more credence to an OS review when more casual readers are appraising your reviews. Again that's opinion, it's based in minutia, but then so are 99.9% of the conversations on these boards. If we weren't relatively obsessed with the minutia of these arguments, we wouldn't be on these boards.

In any event, I appreciate your opinion and how you've approached the question

Have fun................

[solutions]

OS Usually don't post reviews of a game this fast. Am I right?? I know Aaron got the game early but in the past you guys don't post a review of a game until weeks after it's been out. Afterall you just getting around to Madden for the x-box. That's why I always like your reviews cause you didn't feel the need to be the first ones with a review. That being said it was still a good review but if he played it longer maybe he could have found some other flaws or maybe not

[faster]

I would add that a scoring system on SPORTS games is even more difficult than other games. Each year sports games get upgrades. If you give NBA2K7 a 10 this year, and next year they add even more features, potentially fix a couple little issues, then what? An instant 10 again? That's the difficulty in the sports gaming industry. There's ALWAYS next year.

If we're talking Halo, Half-Life, Oblivion, etc, those are games that simply stand by themselves. There may be sequels, but they won't be simply 99% of the same game with simple additions. Games that simply change the genre or do everything right should be given 10s. Nobody can tell me you can't give out a 10 in those cases. A game that simply delivers on every level and changes the genre, has long-lasting playability, and is just a wonder to behold in every sense should be allowed to receive a perfect score.

Now back to sports games. Obviously perfection in sports games is almost unachievable. Perfection in ANYTHING is unachievable, BUT if you have a scale, the top of that rating scale must be achievable. Does that mean perfection? No, it means the highest quality game that can be produced AT THE TIME. At some time we have to recognize a simply outstanding sports achievement, a game that improves tremendously and ups to ante to every others game that competes with it. Barring major issues, this game should be allowed to get a 10. That would simply mean that achievement, that advancement, that game, at that specific time/year, raised the bar and suddenly became "the" standard. Sometimes it's only a 95, but for the rare game that simply brilliantly outpaces what anybody thought was possible, then you get the 10. That system should not be abused however, and if you look at OS's past, they reserve that ranking for an elite group.

[rudyjuly2]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBomber

I think this is the spot where it is customary for me to insert my comment that OS finally consider a numeric system that is relevant

Why must you hijack every review thread with your rant on the OS scoring system? How many times does it need to be explained? There is a difference of opinion here that will not change. Get over it already.

Have you ever had a gorgeous woman walk by and said (outloud or in your head) "That's a 10!". You would be lying to yourself then too because nobody's perfect. The movie 10 should be stricken down and changed to 9.6. Any show using a 10 score like Dancing with the Stars should have the 10 option removed since a 10 is impossible. Its all relative and people should be allowed to score games a 10 if the scale goes that far. Just allow yourself to think that the rounding system means a 10 is simply a 9.51 or higher and no, we don't need to be that specific.

Lastly, I thought the review was a great review that detailed a ton of stuff. I don't even own a 360 nor do I play much video hoops at all anymore and I was intrigued.

Edit: Very well said penguit.

[KBomber]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

Why must you hijack every review thread with your rant on the OS scoring system? How many times does it need to be explained? There is a difference of opinion here that will not change. Get over it already. Have you ever had a gorgeous woman walk by and said (outloud or in your head) "That's a 10!". You would be lying to yourself then too because nobody's perfect. The movie 10 should be stricken down and changed to 9.6. Any show using a 10 score like Dancing with the Stars should have the 10 option removed since a 10 is impossible. Its all relative and people should be allowed to score games a 10 if the scale goes that far. Just allow yourself to think that the rounding system means a 10 is simply a 9.51 or higher and no, we don't need to be that specific. Lastly, I thought the review was a great review that detailed a ton of stuff. I don't even own a 360 nor do I play much video hoops at all anymore and I was intrigued. Edit: Very well said penguit.

No, I even give my wife a 9.8

Although her homemade macaroni and cheese last night warranted a 9.85

Glad to hear about your level of intrigue

Have fun...........

[Mjphillips]

Pretty cool fellas. This is the reason I come back to this site. It is cool when all is said and nobody's feelings are truly hurt. I disregard a lot of the flaming because that is easy, but this was a wonderful discussion to read. Keep it up.

[xrams]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBomber

Quote: Originally Posted by nucahx I think that it is pointless to have a 10/10 system and never be able to give a game a 10. Any case where you would consider giving a game a perfect score you always need to ask the question: "Is this the definitive game in the genre?" If the answer is yes then you can give the game a score of 10/10 while pointing out any flaws that the game may still have. 10/10 doesn't mean perfect, it only means best of the best. That's why you have a number, and a text review. Yeah, I disagree Have fun..........

I agree with this nucahx... my sentiments exactly...

K... technically I see where your coming from... however, a perfect score can be given within the realm of competitive games offered for the current yr... the NBA 2K iterations have shown (comparative) market improvement annually... based on what's available that could very well justify a prefect score... I wouldn't have given NFL2K5 a prefect score 2yrs ago... but now I do... based on what (comps) available and replayability....

In terms of the OS review... they are all good reads.. the EA Head Coach review (had me wanting to buy the game) in particular.... and of course on a low note the Madden 07 review as with most folks could/should have been more scrutinous (score wise)... if only b/c it is the only game in town....

PS... I must commend and prise the OS brian trust for at least having the mental stamina/testicles to respond and leave themselves open too both accolades/criticism regarding their reviews... that alone says something...

[xrams]

Quote: Originally Posted by penguit

I would add that a scoring system on SPORTS games is even more difficult than other games. Each year sports games get upgrades. If you give NBA2K7 a 10 this year, and next year they add even more features, potentially fix a couple little issues, then what? An instant 10 again? That's the difficulty in the sports gaming industry. There's ALWAYS next year.

penguit... by the same token... if the game was given a 9/10 two years ago.... then showed market improvement last yr. and this yr. (on it's own merit)... eventually 10 is in the cards whether it be this yr or the next... that's why (IMO) current available (publisher comp) is so crucial to this process as a whole... you at least have a some control to make a (consumer) value measurement...