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Posts I'll Never Understand

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Old 04-11-2005, 12:06 AM   #73
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Re: Posts I'll Never Understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squint
If nothing else, it made for a good conversation piece....and that's what its all about isn't it?
Yeah, this blog entry has definitely inspired the most discussion, by far.
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:07 AM   #74
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Re: Posts I'll Never Understand

Honestly, this site has just increased a few notches in my book because of this blog of conversation. Nothing like good thoughts to arouse the bunches. Once again, I'm late enough to see the "ending" of the chapter of slider simming. I admire the thoughts of all on here that dropped them. Sliders are both good and bad. Simple as that. Now, for the next week....
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Old 04-11-2005, 03:45 AM   #75
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Re: Posts I'll Never Understand

[quote=Hammerhunker]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medway
To the above poster, those arent slider tweaks they're rule changes, there's a difference. Closest thing to a slider tweak would be someone taking steroids to "up their stats". QUOTE]

I am the above poster, and I disagree with you. Yes they are rule-changes, but aren't they designed to affect results? Aren't sliders designed to do the same?
Yes the affect the results but in a different manner and therefore I don't see the point in making the comparison.

Many games do let you change the rules around, for instance hockey games let you decide if icing or the blue line is taken into consideration. And in that case its exactly the same thing as rule changes that happen in real life. Sliders affect a whole difference aspect of a game compared to rules.
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Old 04-11-2005, 03:50 AM   #76
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Re: Posts I'll Never Understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardot
Or when there are sliders that you have no clue what they do (doesn't MVP have one called "Variable Stuff" huh??).
Variable stuff isn't too ambiguous, the term "stuff" is regularly used to describe if a pitcher has "it" that day in real baseball games.
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Old 04-11-2005, 11:15 AM   #77
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Re: Posts I'll Never Understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squint
And if it makes you feel any better, yours is the only blog that I felt compelled enough to write a response to. If nothing else, it made for a good conversation piece....and that's what its all about isn't it?


Yeah - it's just a topic for conversation. I believe there are actual theoretical issues that we can discuss as sports gamers. There are enough threads on sock color, who's cheesing who, and the 8th 'Who's your favorite band?' of the week in EE ...

I'm interested in gaming on a theoretical level, the way you'd discuss film or literature, and it's fun to have a debate on these "brass tacks" of sports gaming. Sliders fascinate me because they are so unique to the world of sports gaming, and bring up interesting issues of author's intent. We expect sliders in MVP, but not in Splinter Cell, and I can't help but wonder why.

I'll probably come back to a slider discussion at some other point down the road. Part of the problem on this blog was that I was trying to not simply write about sliders (mainly about that particular combination of watching/sliders), but got a little carried away.
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Old 04-11-2005, 12:29 PM   #78
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Re: Posts I'll Never Understand

I'll take a shot at 'explaining' the reason I fully understand both slider tweaking and CPU/CPU watching since I do both.

In the context of CPU/CPU watching, slider tweaking is usually a must. Maybe the sliders have been tweaked, polished, etc by the developers and testers, but they're set for the way most people play the game which is to actually pick up a controller and play the game "the way it was meant to be played." Therefore, if you want to play the game in 'GM' mode (as I call it), the sliders usually have to be tweaked to give more realistic results. Some games are easier than others (ESPN College Hoops 2K5 is excellent out of the box, with the biggest slider change being switching to 15 minute halves for watched games... EA's football games tend to take a bit of work and never quite achieve the 'realism' goal). Anyhow, to me, understanding why sliders are necessary for CPU/CPU watchers should be the easy part. They're playing a different game than the one that came in the box. For people who actually 'play' the game, slider tweaking may make less sense as the article indicates, but I can't comment on that.

As far as GM mode... Why, you (and others) ask, don't I just play any of the fine GM text based games out there like Out of the Park Baseball, Tournament Dreams College Basketball, Front Office Football: The College Years, Total Pro Football, etc? Well... I do. But I also want the 'thrill' of seeing that young outfielder I picked #1 in the draft 3 years ago get a September callup and hit a homerun in his first game, or the defensive line I put together via the draft and free agency absolutely dominate games, or watch the 7 yard run in the closing minutes of a game that puts my halfback above 2000 yards. Yeah, some text based games have excellent play by plays that almost let you 'see the action' but it's still not the same. I'm cursed by loving GM mode games, and equally cursed by not wanting to just 'imagine' the action. I want to see the team I'm molding performing on the field (which by the way can make it easier to see why a team might not be performing as well as you'd expect, as compared to trying to figure it out from play by plays, etc).

One other factor comes into play too. Time. I don't have as much of it to spend these days, often needing to do something else much of an evening. A GM mode game allows me to start a game, watch it while I'm reading, on the computer, eating, etc. In a lot of ways, this is why I'll GM a 'video game' over a text based game. Some text based games (OOTP comes to mind) require you to push a button after every play. Even those that run by themselves don't allow the ability to just glance up once in awhile to take in a play, you have to walk over to the computer, sit down and read.

Anyhow, I'll stop the ramble now, but figured I'd take my shot at explanation.
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Old 04-11-2005, 03:22 PM   #79
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Re: Posts I'll Never Understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by fossen
That's nuts. There's a plenty good slider set inside that plastic - it's called "default".


'Course, my argument is .... "learn to hit".
I disagree completely. Your argument might work with regard to certain games, but many games can be improved significantly by tweaking here and there.

There's no real way to "strategize" to do any of the following: (i) make the CPU run more in a football game; (ii) make the CPU steal more in a baseball game; or (iii) make the CPU drop less passes in an NCAA football game. The list goes on; add your favorites. Sliders are crucial to achieve as accurate results as are possible, because I can play my game, but if the CPU doesn't do its part, then where's the fun?

I don't think it's a stretch to say that slider tweaks can improve almost every sports game. WE8 and its predecessors are widely recognized as fantastically realistic games. But for every WEx, there's a game where the CPU continually goes 8-30 passing the ball, or a game where left-handed hitters can't hit home runs, or a game where the CPU-controlled pitcher simply will not throw ball 4, or a game where there are 3-4 wild pitches every other inning. Not all great examples, and at least one not fixable with sliders, but the point is the same: developers make mistakes.

So it seems to me like developers can use the help. They do a great job in creating fun, mostly realistic games within relatively short periods of time. But there often are glaring errors, many of which can be fixed with sliders. I'm happy we have them.
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Old 04-11-2005, 03:25 PM   #80
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Re: Posts I'll Never Understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by fossen


Yeah - it's just a topic for conversation.
And a good one at that. 8 pages and rolling tells me you're on to something.
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