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Old 10-27-2005, 07:52 AM   #17
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Re: Tacking into the wind

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We are also living in a time when homosexuals go further than just wanting respect and safety (which should be freely given, we all agree there..)- but there are many also looking to convert others... some at a VERY young age. If you don't believe me, check out your local public school library and pick up the children's book "King and King"- targeted at preschoolers. (Its actually one in a series of books aimed at Sesame Street aged kids..)
Now I remembered why we don't have political conversation on this board... because very, very few are qualified to make an intelligent point.
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Old 10-27-2005, 08:47 AM   #18
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Re: Tacking into the wind

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Originally Posted by Clay_OS
Now I remembered why we don't have political conversation on this board... because very, very few are qualified to make an intelligent point.
Really Clay? That's fascinating that you are so versed in the facts that us ignorant non-post-moderns must be too stupid to grasp.

My sister in law is a lesbian. She's "encouraged" 3 other women to do the same- and they have "converted". For 10 years, she tried to encourage my wife to become a lesbian too.

Both my wife and my sister and law come from a home where they had no father and an absentee mom (who was out being a low-rent call girl while the girls raised themselves.) The lesson taught to my wife's older sister from the life-lessons her mother "taught": Men are only good for getting money from.

So, my sister in law seeks to legitimize her own behavior by getting others to do the same. Its the old principle: Dysfunction loves company. She's had 3 successful conversions. She tends to approach young, college-aged women with low-self esteem who have been through a rough breakup, and also happen to be "down on men." These young, impressionable girls who are targeted by her end up being befriended, and invited to parties. They are then brought invited into the fold after they become peers.

So talk to me about conversions, Clay. Anybody who knows anything about the gay community would be able to tell you that yes- there is recruiting into what they call "the life". Visit any state college campus and take in a Bi/gay/trans student meeting. (At Pitt they are called the Bi-Gay-La group). But you need to talk to the active "in-community" homosexuals- those who are well past the phase of "just coming out".

But Clay, I suppose you are one of these people who believes that they are "born" homosexual. Well, despite the efforts of many pro-gay groups who fund some serious scientific studies on the matter- no genetic predisposition has been shown or proven scientifically. Its an assumption that many buy into.

But then again, what would I know about it. I'm "not qualified to make an intelligent point."
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Old 10-27-2005, 08:59 AM   #19
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Re: Tacking into the wind

With all due respect... your Sister is a freak with little to know respect for other people and, clearly, you. Your SISTER...tried to "convert" your WIFE??? Wow!

You are of the closed-minded belief that homosexuality is a club, a cult, and a choice. So, any type of logical and intelligent debate is out the window. You are also of the highly egomaniacal belief that gay people want you on their team. And, finally, if you want to talk about recruiting... turn on the television and count the ads and TV programs that use nothing but rampant sexuality to sell.

They sell to the male (35-55) demographic by using 20 year old women who have no use or need for the product.

Cars?

Video Games?

When they are selling shaving cream, why does a half naked woman always walk up to feel how smooth her man's face is?

Converting.... what a joke.
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Old 10-27-2005, 09:48 AM   #20
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Re: Tacking into the wind

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Originally Posted by Clay_OS
With all due respect... your Sister is a freak with little to know respect for other people and, clearly, you. Your SISTER...tried to "convert" your WIFE??? Wow!

You are of the closed-minded belief that homosexuality is a club, a cult, and a choice. So, any type of logical and intelligent debate is out the window. You are also of the highly egomaniacal belief that gay people want you on their team. And, finally, if you want to talk about recruiting... turn on the television and count the ads and TV programs that use nothing but rampant sexuality to sell.

They sell to the male (35-55) demographic by using 20 year old women who have no use or need for the product.

Cars?

Video Games?

When they are selling shaving cream, why does a half naked woman always walk up to feel how smooth her man's face is?

Converting.... what a joke.
Sister-in-law... my wife's sister. Yes, she tried to convert her back when she was single... after my wife had a breakup with an ex-boyfriend. (Of course, this was years before I met her.) No- she didn't "physicially" try to convert her, but she encouraged her to "try" the life on several occasions, as did my sister-in-law's "life-mate" at that time. (not with either of them, of course..)

But Clay- you are inadvertantly pointing out the giant chink in the armor of the post-modern "tolerance" movement. That being "there's only TOLERANCE to people who feel the same as those in the tolerance movement do." So the whole "tolerance" concept is an oxymoron.

As for you pointing out the rampant, depraved nature of the "Sex sells" society, I agree with you 100%. The message is "sell at any costs." Four words: Total Depravity Of Man. So there we agree.

The question then becomes- do we revel in our own depravity, show it off, and brag about it... Or should we be ashamed?

Shame is a concept that has all but been abolished by the humanist movement. They say "Man is the highest evolved creature on Earth, we have nothing to be ashamed of."

Is that true? Should we feel that way?

I contend that I care more about homosexuals than those who sit by and say nothing. "Tolerance" can also be an excuse to not get involved, and not care. Many gay people have been hurt, often by a father. We should embrace them and care for them.

But some of us aren't about to tell them "Right on! That's the answer. Go for it."
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Old 10-27-2005, 10:40 AM   #21
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Re: Tacking into the wind

Im so tired of people giving excuses on why people do what they do!!!

People do these things cuz they want to, not because someone hurt them or its the thing to do. Converting means that you was interested and accepted someones else beliefs. I guess thats the same thing as being a crack head. Someone introduced them to it and they like it, on the flip side of that some have recovered.

So to defend people "choices" is very courageous and stupid at the same time.

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Old 10-27-2005, 01:12 PM   #22
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Re: Tacking into the wind

Nice article Shawn.

It's obviously going to be much more widely acceptable for her to come out playing in the WNBA than a male athlete in a team sport. I do think it does take some courage since she's in the public eye, and a large portion of the population sees this as a decision to be gay and a huge flaw to her character. I think it may be tougher for her playing in Texas than if she was a player in Conneticut or areas that might be more accepting. Unfortunatley I think it will be quite a while for a male athlete to come out of the closet. If they did I wouldn't imagine their career would last more than 2 years after their announcement, they'd essensially be run out of the sport. The only chance an athelete would have was if it were one of the top players in the sport since then teams and players would likely be more accepting because this player could do a great deal to help the team win. Hopefully I'll live to see a day where this happens, since I think that would very much help the cause, and hopefully take away from some of the negative stereotypes that go along with being gay. To me it's really sad that a good portion of the public would far rather see athletes, who are role models whether they want to be or not, be criminals than be homosexual.
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Old 10-27-2005, 02:08 PM   #23
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Re: Tacking into the wind

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Originally Posted by Fetter21
Hopefully I'll live to see a day where this happens, since I think that would very much help the cause, and hopefully take away from some of the negative stereotypes that go along with being gay.
I have a feeling you'll get your wish.

But look at it this way- it wont' be the first time a major civilization has gone that route, so we can't say such a thing is that new or that trend-setting for the homosexual cause. Ancient Greece comes to mind, as well as two major cities that used to exist on some once fertile land in the Dead Sea region.

What's the common denominator?: All three civilizations exist merely as ruins and historical footnotes in a timeline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fetter21
To me it's really sad that a good portion of the public would far rather see athletes, who are role models whether they want to be or not, be criminals than be homosexual
I'd be willing to bet that the average fan would prefer neither of those two options.
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Old 10-27-2005, 02:36 PM   #24
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Re: Tacking into the wind

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Originally Posted by quietcool72
But look at it this way- it wont' be the first time a major civilization has gone that route, so we can't say such a thing is that new or that trend-setting for the homosexual cause. Ancient Greece comes to mind, as well as two major cities that used to exist on some once fertile land in the Dead Sea region.

What's the common denominator?: All three civilizations exist merely as ruins and historical footnotes in a timeline.
Now, QC, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion here - but that's specious reasoning at best.

I'm sure you don't believe that the US is the only country in the world that has homosexuals. It's common (and more accepted) in Europe, as well.
Besides, last time I checked - the Greek civilization doesn't exist in ruins... there's a direct connection with existing Greeks today.

I respect your opinion - apparently borne, like everyone's - from your own experiences, but the assertion that nations that accept homosexuality have all been destroyed in a time long past borders on the absurd.
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