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Old 02-09-2006, 08:38 PM   #25
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

KBomber, cool it. You don't like the review, ok, that's fine, but as Fossen said, don't try and accuse someone of something that isn't true. First and only warning.
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Old 02-09-2006, 08:48 PM   #26
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
I stand by my comment and I'm not the one backtracking given the realization that the review is flawed
The review is not flawed. You think it's flawed.

See the difference?

Understand what opinion is?

Is it possible to disagree with a review without allegations of pandering to EA? What is wrong with people that you can't simply go "yeah - I disagree" without getting personal?
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Old 02-09-2006, 09:09 PM   #27
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Thank you again for you opinion.

When I grow up I hope I can be as intelligent and informed as you. Thank you for showing me the light. I will return EA's giant check tomorrow. I'm only sorry that a good game completely squashed your anti-EA agenda.
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:37 PM   #28
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay_OS
Thank you again for you opinion.

When I grow up I hope I can be as intelligent and informed as you. Thank you for showing me the light. I will return EA's giant check tomorrow. I'm only sorry that a good game completely squashed your anti-EA agenda.
Were I saying that MVP 2006 should hope to be MLB 2K6 when it grows up, then that comment would be warranted. What I've said is that as a cumulative experience, MVP 2006 doesn't exceed MVP 2005 for a variety of reasons. Beyond that, what I've said is that when comparing it to bench marks to other titles within the EA family, it has dropped the ball

If you want to read in agenda that's fine. It's already apparent that your opinion can be flawed.

When I look at games, I don't look at them as a "one off". When I look at games, I look at them in the context of an entire portfolio of work. To me, you look at EA in the context of EA Games in general and then move out from there. Since EA has demostrated certain proficiencies in the past I look at pursuant games to build on those. So to simplify, if they can render an excellent dynasty mode in a college football title, then the expectation should be that they match or mirror that in a college baseball title. If they create a great atmosphere or character of gameplay in a title like MVP 2005 or a pleasant graphical presentation in NBA 2006, then they should match or exceed that in follow up titles, regardless of the sport being portrayed

Given that I can't judge their implementation of an ESPN license from an EA product, I have to look at how that has been done in the past in games that have applied such a license. Again, the idea should be for any new development to meet or exceed what's been in market in the past, because obviously any game being made today has to look at what's been done in the past and build on those experiences. That's my expectation as a consumer, especially in a medium such as virtual gaming, because why do I really want to play a game that's not better than those that are already in my collection?

Let me ask all of you scholarly gentlemen a single question -- When you compare this title to the gamut of EA experiences available to you does it meet and exceed your expectations relative to where EA has already been as a company in their product development? As I've said, the gameplay has been tweaked but it's been at the expense of a great many presentational and graphical elements. I'll ask you plainly, where is the evolution? I loved playing Space Invaders and appreciate those vintage games to this day, but do I want new development to give me a game that was in my collection in 1980? No. Should I want the same for a game that was in my collection in 2003, 2004 and 2005? Again, I say no

I didn't expect the first ESPN implementation provided by EA to match NFL 2K5. That was a level of branding and product-specific immersion that, to this day, is still the highest water mark of that sort. I'll tell you though, I was expecting a lot more of an effort than what is apparent in MVP 2006, especially offline. Where is it boys? Where's the juice?

I appreciate that a great many of you want to brand me as some sort of EA hate-monger. Go have a look at my signature on the 2k Sports forums, my friends. There's a link to my collection of games found on IGN and in that there are comments related to almost each and every title. I've been a supporter of EA product, but I'd like to know where the commitment from that company is to me as a consumer. That's a point that I have raised and raised often on these boards.

As a group, I hate to tell you, but sports gaming enthusiasts are a bunch of suckers. We have told the developers of these games that it isn't about anything other than the license and a roster update anymore and I'd argue that this approach, especially in the way that it has been evolved by EA, has seen us "enjoy" games that have done less to push the limits in recent years. I've made this point on Madden. I see it in the Live series. It's here too. It's called stagnation.

MVP 2006 is a nice enough game if you consider it on an island and don't reference it to anything available out there, and whether you want to make such comparisons to other EA titles, the sports genre, or everything that's available on an Xbox or PS2 is up to you, but it hasn't really pushed the limits in any area and has actually regressed in many others. Don't compare this to anything other than MVP 2005 if you like, but when you do come back here and tell me that feature for feature or cumulatively it exceeds that gaming experience. It doesn't, so how do we reward it by gushing over it in a review? I think we should be challenging developers a lot more than that. If the learned masses here just want to accept whatever comes down the pipe like doe-eyed fawns that's your right. You'll deserve the games you get, honestly

If we want to only compare games a singular island without points of reference, then aren't they all little 10/10 miracles of microchip technology? Holy Mackinaw, I should have called it quits at "Pong" in 1976

Here's the question for you Joeboo and fossen and Clay and ExtremeGamer; where do you want to be with these gaming experiences tomorrow? Right now EA is showing comfort in regressive tendencies and have been doing that for the last couple of years. This title is more of the same in that vein, so don't reward it -- challenge them to do better

Have fun, fellas.................
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Old 02-09-2006, 11:31 PM   #29
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

So, Kbomber's opinion is fact, and Clay's opinion on the game is false. Oh and OS somehow give's EA a free pass. Ok, great, gotcha.

Man it never gets old. Give 2k games a good score and the EA militia calls you a 2k fanboy, give an EA game a good score and the 2k browncoats do the exact opposite.

It's a lose, lose situation.
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:13 AM   #30
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
Go have a look at my signature on the 2k Sports forums, my friends.
You mean here? That K Bomber?

Where it says you are a Super Moderator and "Project Manager, Freelance Designer & writer on College Hoops 2K5"?

And you're accusing Clay of being partial?

It's pretty obvious what your agenda is ... you can now move along.
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:16 AM   #31
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
As a group, I hate to tell you, but sports gaming enthusiasts are a bunch of suckers.
Coming from the "Project Manager, Freelance Designer & writer on College Hoops 2K5", that's one hell of a marketing pitch.

I'm sure OS' members appreciate such insightful commentary from people who want to sell them their wares.

I wonder if we should invite EA and Sony to comment negatively on positive reviews of any of 2K's products. Seems that what's good for the goose would be good for the gander, no?

Clay's opinion is exactly that - his opinion.
He's as free to his as you are to yours - but claiming that Clay's biased when you're a member of a competing firm that stands to gain directly from negative reviews of another developer's product is simply beyond the pale.

I expected more professional courtesy from any representative of a company like 2K Games, of which OperationSports.com has enjoyed a long and mutually advantageous relationship with for years.

I'm not confident that misrepresenting OS and belittling it's members - 2K Games' traditionally evangelical customers - is the wisest course of action.

I suppose we'll see, won't we?

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Old 02-10-2006, 05:39 AM   #32
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
Were I saying that MVP 2006 should hope to be MLB 2K6 when it grows up, then that comment would be warranted. What I've said is that as a cumulative experience, MVP 2006 doesn't exceed MVP 2005 for a variety of reasons. Beyond that, what I've said is that when comparing it to bench marks to other titles within the EA family, it has dropped the ball

If you want to read in agenda that's fine. It's already apparent that your opinion can be flawed.

When I look at games, I don't look at them as a "one off". When I look at games, I look at them in the context of an entire portfolio of work. To me, you look at EA in the context of EA Games in general and then move out from there. Since EA has demostrated certain proficiencies in the past I look at pursuant games to build on those. So to simplify, if they can render an excellent dynasty mode in a college football title, then the expectation should be that they match or mirror that in a college baseball title. If they create a great atmosphere or character of gameplay in a title like MVP 2005 or a pleasant graphical presentation in NBA 2006, then they should match or exceed that in follow up titles, regardless of the sport being portrayed

Given that I can't judge their implementation of an ESPN license from an EA product, I have to look at how that has been done in the past in games that have applied such a license. Again, the idea should be for any new development to meet or exceed what's been in market in the past, because obviously any game being made today has to look at what's been done in the past and build on those experiences. That's my expectation as a consumer, especially in a medium such as virtual gaming, because why do I really want to play a game that's not better than those that are already in my collection?

Let me ask all of you scholarly gentlemen a single question -- When you compare this title to the gamut of EA experiences available to you does it meet and exceed your expectations relative to where EA has already been as a company in their product development? As I've said, the gameplay has been tweaked but it's been at the expense of a great many presentational and graphical elements. I'll ask you plainly, where is the evolution? I loved playing Space Invaders and appreciate those vintage games to this day, but do I want new development to give me a game that was in my collection in 1980? No. Should I want the same for a game that was in my collection in 2003, 2004 and 2005? Again, I say no

I didn't expect the first ESPN implementation provided by EA to match NFL 2K5. That was a level of branding and product-specific immersion that, to this day, is still the highest water mark of that sort. I'll tell you though, I was expecting a lot more of an effort than what is apparent in MVP 2006, especially offline. Where is it boys? Where's the juice?

I appreciate that a great many of you want to brand me as some sort of EA hate-monger. Go have a look at my signature on the 2k Sports forums, my friends. There's a link to my collection of games found on IGN and in that there are comments related to almost each and every title. I've been a supporter of EA product, but I'd like to know where the commitment from that company is to me as a consumer. That's a point that I have raised and raised often on these boards.

As a group, I hate to tell you, but sports gaming enthusiasts are a bunch of suckers. We have told the developers of these games that it isn't about anything other than the license and a roster update anymore and I'd argue that this approach, especially in the way that it has been evolved by EA, has seen us "enjoy" games that have done less to push the limits in recent years. I've made this point on Madden. I see it in the Live series. It's here too. It's called stagnation.

MVP 2006 is a nice enough game if you consider it on an island and don't reference it to anything available out there, and whether you want to make such comparisons to other EA titles, the sports genre, or everything that's available on an Xbox or PS2 is up to you, but it hasn't really pushed the limits in any area and has actually regressed in many others. Don't compare this to anything other than MVP 2005 if you like, but when you do come back here and tell me that feature for feature or cumulatively it exceeds that gaming experience. It doesn't, so how do we reward it by gushing over it in a review? I think we should be challenging developers a lot more than that. If the learned masses here just want to accept whatever comes down the pipe like doe-eyed fawns that's your right. You'll deserve the games you get, honestly

If we want to only compare games a singular island without points of reference, then aren't they all little 10/10 miracles of microchip technology? Holy Mackinaw, I should have called it quits at "Pong" in 1976

Here's the question for you Joeboo and fossen and Clay and ExtremeGamer; where do you want to be with these gaming experiences tomorrow? Right now EA is showing comfort in regressive tendencies and have been doing that for the last couple of years. This title is more of the same in that vein, so don't reward it -- challenge them to do better

Have fun, fellas.................

While I agree with many of your points, this thread is not the place for it. It's a great post, just not for here.

It's Clay's opinion, I think it's a great game. I don't agree that it deserves a 9/10, but he reviewed it, not me. Saying that he is bias and is giving EA a "free pass" is pushing it way too far.

While I do think this is the wrong place for KBomber to put his post, I think some of you guys are being a little harsh on him.
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