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Old 02-10-2006, 12:05 PM   #49
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeGamer
I have, and you flipped out like someone robbed your house.
If you say so, boss

Have fun..........
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:07 PM   #50
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
If you say so, boss

Have fun..........
What are you trying to accomplish? your opinion has been stated and noted. Are you trying to get Clay to change his opinion of the game? You do realize that is what a review is, right? Just an opinion.

I don't share a lot of the same opinions on games with other members of the staff, as I'm sure others do.

I wasn't a fan of ESPN NFL2K5, the staff here loved it and most still do love it. I don't like Winning Eleven, most of the staff does. I prefered EA's NHL 06, everyone else liked NHL2K6. I'm not going to flip out and get ticked off because someone doesn't like the same game I do or doesn't like the same game I do.

Just chill out.

Oh, and have fun.
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:35 PM   #51
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeGamer
What are you trying to accomplish? your opinion has been stated and noted. Are you trying to get Clay to change his opinion of the game? You do realize that is what a review is, right? Just an opinion.
I understand that. I also understand that to voice my opinion isn't wrong either. My understanding was that this thread was generated to discuss the merits of the review. Have I been wrong in that understanding? If I was, then I guess I should take it all back, because my posts were based on that premise. From my perspective, I made comment and have engaged in a dialogue with yourself and seemingly the entire mod staff here relative to how my opinion and Clay's differ. When you guys have challenged me on my POV I have responded in retrospect. To me that's a conversation. What do you characterize it as?

When people challenge me on my viewpoint, I take it as them having at least connected to it in some way. If I didn't give a rat's *** about the quality of material coming out of this site, I'd write you guys off in the same way I write off other reviewers. I actually read and responded to this review. Take that as a compliment. Beyond that, I've voiced a POV in the interest that maybe the next time Clay or you or another of the reviewers here puts together a review that maybe you consider those impressions of how a review might be formatted as considerable.

Do I want you guys to see everything my way? Well it'd be nice, but in all honesty, no I don't. The only way that this genre advances is if there are a lot of ideas out there and a lot of opinions on how these games can be better.

If I didn't think that the review staff here is capable of better, would I have even piped up in the first place? Ask yourself that

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeGamer
I don't share a lot of the same opinions on games with other members of the staff, as I'm sure others do.

I wasn't a fan of ESPN NFL2K5, the staff here loved it and most still do love it. I don't like Winning Eleven, most of the staff does. I prefered EA's NHL 06, everyone else liked NHL2K6. I'm not going to flip out and get ticked off because someone doesn't like the same game I do or doesn't like the same game I do.

Just chill out.

Oh, and have fun.
I want both EA and VC to be out there making the best games that they can make. Participation sports have been lost to me for over 25 years due to severe injury. These games are my outlet. I am passionate about them. When I consider these games I appreciate the efforts that move the entire genre forward. When games come out and rehash and regress, I think we as a community need to stand up and make absolute note of it. You guys have highlighted the "Virtual gamers are a bunch of suckers" comment that I made. Just remember, I am one of those suckers, but we also need to remember that as a community we also have a relevant voice that needs to be heard.

In your comment, you highlight a number of titles that provide different experiences. That to me is a good thing, that the variety of offerings has allowed you to find a representation of a sport that meets with how you are comfortable interpreting the experience of those games. Look at the collection of games that I have. You'll see those there. I'm a fan

When I think of this site I think of a medium that should be taking more of an active role in that regard. That's why I post here. To me, that's what your mandate should be. Whether you choose to act on that or not is the perogative of you, the owners. If you ask me what my position is on OS, I'm going to tell you that I expect more. I expect better. That was the interest of my original post. That you didn't see it as that, is your issue. Would you rather have no comment, blind agreement, or the challenge to do better? It depends on where you want this site to go

If you want to take shots at me guys, go ahead. It's not going to change how I perceive this site or my thoughts on what it can be. You can take that and think about it a while. Maybe it'll help you understand why some might "flip out like someone had robbed [my] house"

If it doesn't matter to you, why do you do it?

Have fun..................

PS: If you have anything else on me personally that you like to discuss, maybe just drop me a PM -- we can discuss what a heretic I am in a less public forum
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Basketball made me the man I am today; Arthritic and Bitter...

What I think I think:
• Y'know, I've never played less NBA 2K than I did with NBA 2K12
• Sports VG titles were REALLY disappointing in 2011-12
• Thank Heaven for ME3 and Arkham City -- saved my winter
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:49 PM   #52
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
From my perspective, I made comment and have engaged in a dialogue with yourself and seemingly the entire mod staff here relative to how my opinion and Clay's differ. When you guys have challenged me on my POV I have responded in retrospect. To me that's a conversation. What do you characterize it as?
I characterize as you taking unfair potshots at the site's integrity. I characterize it as someone with an EA axe to grind (due to an association with a competitor) attacking any favorable somment on an EA product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
Beyond that, I've voiced a POV in the interest that maybe the next time Clay or you or another of the reviewers here puts together a review that maybe you consider those impressions of how a review might be formatted as considerable.
You want final edit on OS reviews? They should all get run past you to make sure they are "formatted' according to your standards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
The only way that this genre advances is if there are a lot of ideas out there and a lot of opinions on how these games can be better.
Yet, if someone disagrees you attack their integrity.
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:55 PM   #53
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fossen
I characterize as you taking unfair potshots at the site's integrity. I characterize it as someone with an EA axe to grind (due to an association with a competitor) attacking any favorable somment on an EA product.


You want final edit on OS reviews? They should all get run past you to make sure they are "formatted' according to your standards?


Yet, if someone disagrees you attack their integrity.
Once again you are way off-base and making absolute misrepresentation of what I've written. Considering people are spending their day telling me to go chill out, my you should ice yourself down in the same vein

I've explained myself

Have fun................
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Basketball made me the man I am today; Arthritic and Bitter...

What I think I think:
• Y'know, I've never played less NBA 2K than I did with NBA 2K12
• Sports VG titles were REALLY disappointing in 2011-12
• Thank Heaven for ME3 and Arkham City -- saved my winter
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:15 PM   #54
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
When people challenge me on my viewpoint, I take it as them having at least connected to it in some way. If I didn't give a rat's *** about the quality of material coming out of this site, I'd write you guys off in the same way I write off other reviewers. I actually read and responded to this review. Take that as a compliment. Beyond that, I've voiced a POV in the interest that maybe the next time Clay or you or another of the reviewers here puts together a review that maybe you consider those impressions of how a review might be formatted as considerable.


If I didn't think that the review staff here is capable of better, would I have even piped up in the first place? Ask yourself that


In your comment, you highlight a number of titles that provide different experiences. That to me is a good thing, that the variety of offerings has allowed you to find a representation of a sport that meets with how you are comfortable interpreting the experience of those games. Look at the collection of games that I have. You'll see those there. I'm a fan

When I think of this site I think of a medium that should be taking more of an active role in that regard. That's why I post here. To me, that's what your mandate should be. Whether you choose to act on that or not is the perogative of you, the owners. If you ask me what my position is on OS, I'm going to tell you that I expect more. I expect better. That was the interest of my original post. That you didn't see it as that, is your issue. Would you rather have no comment, blind agreement, or the challenge to do better? It depends on where you want this site to go

If you want to take shots at me guys, go ahead. It's not going to change how I perceive this site or my thoughts on what it can be. You can take that and think about it a while. Maybe it'll help you understand why some might "flip out like someone had robbed [my] house"

If it doesn't matter to you, why do you do it?

Have fun..................

PS: If you have anything else on me personally that you like to discuss, maybe just drop me a PM -- we can discuss what a heretic I am in a less public forum
Ive read the entire thread and no one has personally attacked you or taken shots. People here found it interesting that someone associated with a competitor would take such a big stance against a positive review of an EA game. You explained your association with 2K and the subject was dropped, so you can stop complaining about the personal attacks.

Regarding our reviews, if you are going to make a statement that infers that Clay or any OS reviewer is an EA apologist, you should do some research and not base your whole argument on one review. Honestly, if I worked for EA I would be pissed at OS. We have given their last 5 reviewed games (before MVP 06) scores of 6/10 and below.

I (and I think the staff as whole) appreciate every member's opinion on this board and respect each member's right to have an opinion even if it is different. What I dont appreciate is someone making a sweeping statement like Clay or any OS reviewer is biased (or an apologist) without doing some research and having more than 1 9/10 score to back up their argument.
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Old 02-10-2006, 04:04 PM   #55
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aholbert32
Ive read the entire thread and no one has personally attacked you or taken shots. People here found it interesting that someone associated with a competitor would take such a big stance against a positive review of an EA game. You explained your association with 2K and the subject was dropped, so you can stop complaining about the personal attacks.
Strange that you can acknowledge the comments made relative to my association with 2k Sports and then say in the same breath that they weren't "shots" -- but that's your perogative, I'll guess. I'm going to continue to look at it this way, I haven't made a comparison to a 2k product here and have argued in the context of comparing MVP 2006 to its linear predecessor, MVP 2005, and other games within the EA portfolio. How that is impacted in the first place by an unpaid association with 2k Sports is well beyond me

Quote:
Originally Posted by aholbert32
I (and I think the staff as whole) appreciate every member's opinion on this board and respect each member's right to have an opinion even if it is different. What I dont appreciate is someone making a sweeping statement like Clay or any OS reviewer is biased (or an apologist) without doing some research and having more than 1 9/10 score to back up their argument.
Here is the core of my original statement regarding this review:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
For all of the aspects of baseball that MVP 2005 rendered so well, do you really get an experience in MVP 2006 that heightens the gameplaying experience overall compared to the earlier version of the game?

My money says "No"

An overwhelming review for what is only a good game. Not great. Good. There are some nice additions on the side of animations, but look at the overall graphical package, the features that have been removed and the general lack of character exhibited by this game and I'd argue that you have a game that has taken more of a sideways or even a backwards step than MVP 2005

That you can argue that this game so exceeds MVP 2005 is fraudulent, reprehensibly so
If you can find for me where I say that the review is biased towards EA, I'll give you a dollar (all funds CDN...)

I'm going to stick with my comment, that if MVP 2005 exceeds MVP 2006, how are we making this statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by "MVP 2006 Review - Clay Shaver"
They took an existing series that worked; did a 180 when they lost their MLB license - and produced a product with more features that was even better. Not only that, they were first to market in the baseball game race by weeks. As a sports gaming and baseball fan, I’m excited to think about what the team can do with a full year to prepare for next year. More teams. More stadiums. We’ll likely even see a deeper Dynasty mode like its gridiron counterpart. The sky is really the limit here.

They improvised. They adapted. They overcame.
Basically logic isn't well served here. I've highlighted that. You guys have made the association that the opinion is "fraudulent". I'm talking about the logic. Clay's review suggests a game that is far and away better than MVP 2005. I'm saying, that based on his own comments related to the depth of the dynasty mode, the regression in graphics and sound, as well as my assertion of a regression in the character of the overall game, that to make such conclusions is patently impossible and illogical

One poster said that all of this amounts to me saying I disagree with the review. They are probably accurate. Let me say it here plainly and then maybe we can just move on

I disagree with the review and I expect a little more from this site

Have fun...........
__________________
Basketball made me the man I am today; Arthritic and Bitter...

What I think I think:
• Y'know, I've never played less NBA 2K than I did with NBA 2K12
• Sports VG titles were REALLY disappointing in 2011-12
• Thank Heaven for ME3 and Arkham City -- saved my winter
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Old 02-10-2006, 04:11 PM   #56
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Re: MVP 06 NCAA Baseball Review (Xbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBomber
Strange that you can acknowledge the comments made relative to my association with 2k Sports and then say in the same breath that they weren't "shots" -- but that's your perogative, I'll guess. I'm going to continue to look at it this way, I haven't made a comparison to a 2k product here and have argued in the context of comparing MVP 2006 to its linear predecessor, MVP 2005, and other games within the EA portfolio. How that is impacted in the first place by an unpaid association with 2k Sports is well beyond me


Here is the core of my original statement regarding this review:

If you can find for me where I say that the review is biased towards EA, I'll give you a dollar (all funds CDN...)

I'm going to stick with my comment, that if MVP 2005 exceeds MVP 2006, how are we making this statement:


Basically logic isn't well served here. I've highlighted that. You guys have made the association that the opinion is "fraudulent". I'm talking about the logic. Clay's review suggests a game that is far and away better than MVP 2005. I'm saying, that based on his own comments related to the depth of the dynasty mode, the regression in graphics and sound, as well as my assertion of a regression in the character of the overall game, that to make such conclusions is patently impossible and illogical

One poster said that all of this amounts to me saying I disagree with the review. They are probably accurate. Let me say it here plainly and then maybe we can just move on

I disagree with the review and I expect a little more from this site

Have fun...........
Are you serious? If you are going to quote your original post, please quote the entire thing. Here is the line you left out:

"Isn't it time we expected more from the "industry leader" in virtual sports gaming? Quit apologizing for EA and start challenging them to offer more"

"Quit apologizing for EA." Now in my statement, I said do some reasearch before you say anyone is biased OR an apologist. Its clear that you are calling Clay an apologist from that quote above and its also clear that your only basis for that statement is this review. My point remains the same. Do some research before you throw out defamatory statements like that.
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