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RaychelSnr · 05-26-2008, 11:34 AM

Today, Jess Stewart checks in with an article taking a fresh look at realism. Check it out here.

Quote:


	"There is a certain level of integrity that the OS community tries to uphold when it comes to sports games and realism. The overwhelming majority hope for standings and stats that are on par with what they see happening in real life. It is understood that upsets will happen and certain players will have breakout seasons, but if overdone by a sim engine, the community attempts to feverishly right the ship. Often times the task can be too daunting and take away from enjoying a game that is meant to entertain not frustrate."

Tdiddy9182 · 05-26-2008, 01:45 PM

Exactly! My main sim game of choice is NBA2k8 and if I have a role player that is on fire, I don't pull him out of the game just because its unrealistic. I play w a raptors association and with my last game, Delfino went 5/6 when he came in and was on fire, so i kept using him and he ended up with 35. Its not like things of that degree happen anyway, but its just part of the unexpected in the world of sports.

BrianFifaFan · 05-26-2008, 04:37 PM

I totally agree with this article. I have no problem with a game that I win because I executed, regardless of the stat line. In baseball it is possible to bat .1000 and the Cornhuskers used to put up 70 quite often. My problem lies in a game that doesn't have the proper fundimentals of a sport coded in or has predictable second-rate AI that doesn't offer a challenge. Many sports games are guilty of having AI that doesn't get "smarter" as you progress in difficulty level, it just begins to "cheat." And then those built in coding flaws that the CPU uses end of getting discovered by a human opponent and used to win games in a way that undermines the basic rules of the sport. Or you get something really unrealistic like Shaq doing crossovers and spins, like in NBA2k5.

05-26-2008, 05:47 PM

Tdiddy, you hit it on the head. When you have to utilize what you are given to win there is a great feeling associated with that victory.

Brian, I feel you. It's tough when games have to "cheat" to beat us. Hopefully games progress to the point where the AI just plays much better as opposed to making every shot and the like.

J.R. Locke · 05-26-2008, 07:10 PM

?? I don't understand your argument at all. Stats and difficulty level should not be confused. Stats tell how games are won or lost....which in effect tells you how realistic a video game is to representing the real thing.

05-26-2008, 08:56 PM

I'm saying take the focus away from stats. Instead of asking yourself post game "Well did I have the better stats and deserve the victory?" ask "Did I execute my game plan?".

Having a challenging experience in which you feel you deserved a victory should be the focal point IMO. This is targeted towards sim gamers who spend too much time sweating whether or not their stats are VERY accurate.

I agree that for the most part stats tell how a game is won/lost. I just believe they are scrutinized to an extreme which takes away from the overall gaming experience.

adembroski · 05-26-2008, 09:55 PM

I generally don't concern myself with stats... if I find a slider set that makes the action on the field feel right, there are appropriate reactions to my actions, generally, the stats will fall into place.

Unfortunately, football is the only sport I know well enough to do this in. My first act with any new football game is to create 7 players... 4 defensive and 5 offensive, and put their ratings where, once I find the right blocking sliders, I should produce a stalemate over many plays. Then I start working on making sure my runningbacks and receivers are running at the same pace. Then I start throwing quick outs to see how quick the defensive backs are jumping the route, if at all... this gives me my baseline for all other sliders. I never, ever use stats to generate sliders.

RogueHominid · 05-26-2008, 11:23 PM

Cum si, cum sa. Sports games are about statistics. Granted, you can't hold yourself to the unrealistic expectation that only teams and players who are "supposed" to be good are good, and vice versa; however, I don't see how you can play a sports game where there are seven turnovers a game, 5 2,000 yard rushers a year, 15 hits a game, or whatever over the long haul. IMHO, statistical parameters have to go along with gameplay as the two top determinants of a quality sports game.

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05-26-2008, 01:45 PM	#2
Tdiddy9182 Rookie OVR: 1 Join Date: Mar 2008	Exactly! My main sim game of choice is NBA2k8 and if I have a role player that is on fire, I don't pull him out of the game just because its unrealistic. I play w a raptors association and with my last game, Delfino went 5/6 when he came in and was on fire, so i kept using him and he ended up with 35. Its not like things of that degree happen anyway, but its just part of the unexpected in the world of sports.

05-26-2008, 04:37 PM	#3
BrianFifaFan Semi-retired OVR: 50 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dayton,OH Posts: 4,144 Blog Entries: 7	I totally agree with this article. I have no problem with a game that I win because I executed, regardless of the stat line. In baseball it is possible to bat .1000 and the Cornhuskers used to put up 70 quite often. My problem lies in a game that doesn't have the proper fundimentals of a sport coded in or has predictable second-rate AI that doesn't offer a challenge. Many sports games are guilty of having AI that doesn't get "smarter" as you progress in difficulty level, it just begins to "cheat." And then those built in coding flaws that the CPU uses end of getting discovered by a human opponent and used to win games in a way that undermines the basic rules of the sport. Or you get something really unrealistic like Shaq doing crossovers and spins, like in NBA2k5.

05-26-2008, 05:47 PM	#4
stewaat Guest OVR:	Tdiddy, you hit it on the head. When you have to utilize what you are given to win there is a great feeling associated with that victory. Brian, I feel you. It's tough when games have to "cheat" to beat us. Hopefully games progress to the point where the AI just plays much better as opposed to making every shot and the like.

05-26-2008, 07:10 PM	#5
J.R. Locke Banned OVR: 31 Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 4,137 Blog Entries: 5	?? I don't understand your argument at all. Stats and difficulty level should not be confused. Stats tell how games are won or lost....which in effect tells you how realistic a video game is to representing the real thing.

05-26-2008, 08:56 PM	#6
stewaat Guest OVR:	I'm saying take the focus away from stats. Instead of asking yourself post game "Well did I have the better stats and deserve the victory?" ask "Did I execute my game plan?". Having a challenging experience in which you feel you deserved a victory should be the focal point IMO. This is targeted towards sim gamers who spend too much time sweating whether or not their stats are VERY accurate. I agree that for the most part stats tell how a game is won/lost. I just believe they are scrutinized to an extreme which takes away from the overall gaming experience.

05-26-2008, 09:55 PM	#7
adembroski 49ers OVR: 43 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 5,793 Blog Entries: 20	I generally don't concern myself with stats... if I find a slider set that makes the action on the field feel right, there are appropriate reactions to my actions, generally, the stats will fall into place. Unfortunately, football is the only sport I know well enough to do this in. My first act with any new football game is to create 7 players... 4 defensive and 5 offensive, and put their ratings where, once I find the right blocking sliders, I should produce a stalemate over many plays. Then I start working on making sure my runningbacks and receivers are running at the same pace. Then I start throwing quick outs to see how quick the defensive backs are jumping the route, if at all... this gives me my baseline for all other sliders. I never, ever use stats to generate sliders.

05-26-2008, 11:23 PM	#8
RogueHominid Hall Of Fame OVR: 33 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,722	Cum si, cum sa. Sports games are about statistics. Granted, you can't hold yourself to the unrealistic expectation that only teams and players who are "supposed" to be good are good, and vice versa; however, I don't see how you can play a sports game where there are seven turnovers a game, 5 2,000 yard rushers a year, 15 hits a game, or whatever over the long haul. IMHO, statistical parameters have to go along with gameplay as the two top determinants of a quality sports game.

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