Home

Playing Smart: Why Realism Is Not Always the Answer

This is a discussion on Playing Smart: Why Realism Is Not Always the Answer within the Operation Sports Content forums.

Go Back   Operation Sports Forums > The News Desk > Operation Sports Content
NBA Live 19 Review
NBA 2K19 Review
NASCAR Heat 3 Review
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-08-2008, 03:14 AM   #17
Earlwolfx on XBL
 
Cusefan's Arena
 
OVR: 35
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 315
Posts: 9,916
Blog Entries: 12
Re: Playing Smart: Why Realism Is Not Always the Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by born_bad
I don't see why realism has to = difficult controls (as the article kind of implies and states repeatedly). For me, the ideal sports game would have simple controls (something like NHL 09), but yet what I see on the screen would be as close to real as possible. I don't think making the controls complicated, or giving the player complete control over ever little nuance, is the ticket to realistic sports games. I don't see why a baseball couldn't produce more realistic results (higher pitch counts, foul balls, less HRs, etc.) with NES-style simple controls, if it was programmed to be more realistic.

I think the mistake some of the developers are making are making the games too complicated. I shouldn't have to practice isomotion moves for hours to pull off a spin move. It should be a simple as a button press, but the key to making it realistic is coding it so only guys that can actually pull it off in real life can pull it off in the game. If you try it with someone who doesn't have those skills, there should be a realistic consequence for it. That's where games get it wrong, I think. There's not enough of a negative consequence for unrealistic play.

Madden is also getting it wrong, I think with all the complicated pre-snap controls all the controls for moves while running (R stick, buttons, shoulder buttons, etc.) Why can't it just be something as simple as I run with the left stick and the game is coded so that guys that are good at breaking tackles will occasionally and realistically break tackles? It would still feel satisfying and rewarding, I believe, without me having to try and manually string together a bunch of commands to do it.

I *hated* MLB2k's game last year. The pitching controls are horrible, IMO, and still don't accomplish what they were going for: making it feel like throwing different pitches. Again, I think pitching should be as simple as a button press, but the game AI determines based on player ratings how accurate, fast, how much movement, the pitch has. You still manually aim, but if you don't have the best pitcher in the world, don't expect the ball to go where you want 100% of the time. To me, that is more "sim" than having to perform all kinds of crazy motions on the R stick to throw a curve ball. I just want to see realistic animations and results on the screen; I don't need to try and emulate what throwing a pitch feels like on the controller somehow for the game to feel "realistic."

So, in summary, I think realism in sports games would be appreciated by "sim" and "casual" fans alike, if they can make the controls simple, yet fun to play, while yielding realistic scenarios, and causing realistic negative consequences for unrealistic play.
Wouldn't that take all of the skill out of the game?

I do agree with madden to an extent. I wish the better football tactician would win 90% of the time over the kid who has no idea what he is calling but has good stick skills. But that's video games
__________________
My dog's butt smells like cookies
Cusefan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 07:51 AM   #18
MVP
 
OVR: 11
Join Date: Jan 2005
Re: Playing Smart: Why Realism Is Not Always the Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cusefan
Wouldn't that take all of the skill out of the game?

Not necessarily. It would remove a lot of the controller skills, but not necessarily skills to outplay your opponent. I think back to the NES games: the controller was a d-pad and 2 buttons, yet a lot of the games still required skill. In a lot of ways those games are more challening than modern games, once you get over the more involved controls.

I'm at work now, so can't really expand on it, but I think you could still develop games where the more skilled player has the advantage, but "skilled" wouldn't just be about the controller; it would be more about the decisions you make, your ability to execute them, and realistic consequences for bad decisions.

Last edited by born_bad; 12-08-2008 at 07:58 AM.
born_bad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 08:03 AM   #19
Pro
 
carnalnirvana's Arena
 
OVR: 21
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: brooklyn, ny
Posts: 2,020
this may be pandoras box but i would really like if lets say EA would release a editor tool for each of its games and let us patch or tighten some base areas.......

i know some are more experienced than others when it comes to computers and programming but it would be something you have to buy so that should keep it in the hands of the people who are hardcore tweakers...

an example of this is counter strike it took a while but ............

or mugen kinda similar
carnalnirvana is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 08:49 AM   #20
MVP
 
jpup's Arena
 
OVR: 31
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: KY
Blog Entries: 10
this article makes my head hurt and is the reason why we have arcade sports games instead of sports simulation. this goes against everything I have ever read at OS.
jpup is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 10:38 AM   #21
Pro
 
asu666's Arena
 
OVR: 34
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Blog Entries: 8
I consider realism to be great gameplay (e.g., ESPN NFL 2K5, FIFA 09, MLB 08), excellent animations (e.g., ESPN NFL 2K5, FIFA 09, MLB 08, NHL 2K9), presentation (ESPN NFL 2K5, College Hoops 2K8, MLB 08, FIFA 09) and depth (MLB 08, FIFA 09, College Hoops 2K8). All devs should look at what has been done in the past with these titles and use them as a bar that should be exceeded with future releases.

asu666 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 12-08-2008, 10:56 AM   #22
GSW
All Star
 
GSW's Arena
 
OVR: 40
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 8,846
Re: Playing Smart: Why Realism Is Not Always the Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by born_bad
I don't see why realism has to = difficult controls (as the article kind of implies and states repeatedly). For me, the ideal sports game would have simple controls (something like NHL 09), but yet what I see on the screen would be as close to real as possible. I don't think making the controls complicated, or giving the player complete control over ever little nuance, is the ticket to realistic sports games. I don't see why a baseball couldn't produce more realistic results (higher pitch counts, foul balls, less HRs, etc.) with NES-style simple controls, if it was programmed to be more realistic.

I think the mistake some of the developers are making are making the games too complicated. I shouldn't have to practice isomotion moves for hours to pull off a spin move. It should be a simple as a button press, but the key to making it realistic is coding it so only guys that can actually pull it off in real life can pull it off in the game. If you try it with someone who doesn't have those skills, there should be a realistic consequence for it. That's where games get it wrong, I think. There's not enough of a negative consequence for unrealistic play.

Madden is also getting it wrong, I think with all the complicated pre-snap controls all the controls for moves while running (R stick, buttons, shoulder buttons, etc.) Why can't it just be something as simple as I run with the left stick and the game is coded so that guys that are good at breaking tackles will occasionally and realistically break tackles? It would still feel satisfying and rewarding, I believe, without me having to try and manually string together a bunch of commands to do it.

I *hated* MLB2k's game last year. The pitching controls are horrible, IMO, and still don't accomplish what they were going for: making it feel like throwing different pitches. Again, I think pitching should be as simple as a button press, but the game AI determines based on player ratings how accurate, fast, how much movement, the pitch has. You still manually aim, but if you don't have the best pitcher in the world, don't expect the ball to go where you want 100% of the time. To me, that is more "sim" than having to perform all kinds of crazy motions on the R stick to throw a curve ball. I just want to see realistic animations and results on the screen; I don't need to try and emulate what throwing a pitch feels like on the controller somehow for the game to feel "realistic."

So, in summary, I think realism in sports games would be appreciated by "sim" and "casual" fans alike, if they can make the controls simple, yet fun to play, while yielding realistic scenarios, and causing realistic negative consequences for unrealistic play.


I apologize to everyone for not reading the rest of the posts in this thread but after reading this I don't really feel the need too. (I will anyway though)
__________________
37 year old gamer / Label Owner

PSN: amusecreate
Soundcloud: www.soundcloud.com/amuseaudio
GSW is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 12:23 PM   #23
KG
Welcome Back
 
KG's Arena
 
OVR: 35
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,968
Blog Entries: 2
Re: Playing Smart: Why Realism Is Not Always the Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by born_bad
I don't see why realism has to = difficult controls (as the article kind of implies and states repeatedly). For me, the ideal sports game would have simple controls (something like NHL 09), but yet what I see on the screen would be as close to real as possible. I don't think making the controls complicated, or giving the player complete control over ever little nuance, is the ticket to realistic sports games. I don't see why a baseball couldn't produce more realistic results (higher pitch counts, foul balls, less HRs, etc.) with NES-style simple controls, if it was programmed to be more realistic.

I think the mistake some of the developers are making are making the games too complicated. I shouldn't have to practice isomotion moves for hours to pull off a spin move. It should be a simple as a button press, but the key to making it realistic is coding it so only guys that can actually pull it off in real life can pull it off in the game. If you try it with someone who doesn't have those skills, there should be a realistic consequence for it. That's where games get it wrong, I think. There's not enough of a negative consequence for unrealistic play.

Madden is also getting it wrong, I think with all the complicated pre-snap controls all the controls for moves while running (R stick, buttons, shoulder buttons, etc.) Why can't it just be something as simple as I run with the left stick and the game is coded so that guys that are good at breaking tackles will occasionally and realistically break tackles? It would still feel satisfying and rewarding, I believe, without me having to try and manually string together a bunch of commands to do it.

I *hated* MLB2k's game last year. The pitching controls are horrible, IMO, and still don't accomplish what they were going for: making it feel like throwing different pitches. Again, I think pitching should be as simple as a button press, but the game AI determines based on player ratings how accurate, fast, how much movement, the pitch has. You still manually aim, but if you don't have the best pitcher in the world, don't expect the ball to go where you want 100% of the time. To me, that is more "sim" than having to perform all kinds of crazy motions on the R stick to throw a curve ball. I just want to see realistic animations and results on the screen; I don't need to try and emulate what throwing a pitch feels like on the controller somehow for the game to feel "realistic."

So, in summary, I think realism in sports games would be appreciated by "sim" and "casual" fans alike, if they can make the controls simple, yet fun to play, while yielding realistic scenarios, and causing realistic negative consequences for unrealistic play.
I feel the complete opposite. I want total control over my players pre and post snap. The game is already coded so that players break tackles, it's called the ratings. I don't want to play a game that any bum off the street can pop in and play well. Learning how to play the game is the beauty of "sim" games and that's where some companies fail and some succeed. What's the point of playing if you're gonna count on the CPU to pull off moves for you? What companies need to do is work on their branch animations. I agree that there are too many canned animations where you know the outcome as soon as you see the animation forming. Specifically I'm talking about gang-tackling and collision detection.
__________________
Twitter & Instagram - kgx2thez
KG is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 12:56 PM   #24
Rookie
 
OVR: 7
Join Date: Sep 2008
Re: Playing Smart: Why Realism Is Not Always the Answer

realism rocks
dannydufflebags is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > The News Desk > Operation Sports Content »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:38 PM.

Top -