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The Great White Whale of Sports Gaming: Realism

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Old 06-21-2014, 05:55 PM   #9
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No disrespect intended to the OP but gaming companies been feed us the what fans want crap for years. If a company hasn't created a sim or realistic game to gauge what sells they are lying and giving fans what they feel they need or giving fans no choice but to hope they will get it right.
I have spoken to a few producers who think sim or realism by themselves will not sell. This what fans are stuck with, they don't even give true options to play your game how you would like.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:12 PM   #10
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Great article but I think your confusing the argument. The idea of realism in gaming is not how hard it is to hit a baseball as if I'm hitting the baseball but how hard it would be to hit that baseball if I were the player I'm using. It can never be a perfect simulation due to the fact that's sports aren't perfect in the sense of if I beat New England with the worst team in madden most of us would say that's not realistic but on any giving Sunday anyone can be beat in any sport for that matter and it's happened. Simulation to me is I have to play like the real life counterpart to be the most successful . What I mean by that is a team like the heat who want the game fast and a lot of big plays to fuel their confidence if I play like that I'll get the optimum chance to win not to say its garuantee to win but that's my best chance . It's definitely are hard task but I believe if you try to keep true player movement,speed and momentum. It's when the cheat those things for the sake of response it looks lacking and it removes you from immersion. I enjoy games like nba 2k and the show because even though far from perfect they try to keep these ideals in mind. Like I've read before maybe last gen is holding this gen back due to having to develope both who knows but madden looks improved and I'm enjoying where sports gaming is heading for the most part
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:30 PM   #11
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I feel this is the catch 22 with with sports games. If there was a completely sim/realistic sports games then many gamers wouldn't be able to enjoy the game. Imagine the frustration of having to gameplan against peyton manning and also executing that gameplan to win a game. We are all sports fans and there are many of us that want a true sim experience but would we actually have the sports IQ to perform well at these games?

The other part of the issue is when do we determine when the game is realistic or sim enough? For me realism means realistic results. One aspect is realisitc movement, body contact, physics, etc. A player like Sproles shouldnt run over linebackers, objects and body parts should not clip or go through other objects, bigger players (like a center in basketball) should not move like smaller players (such as a pg), etc. Another aspect is players and teams playing like themselves.Whether the player or team is human controlled or CPU controller players should be limit to their skill set. Shaq should not attempt or be able to dribble like a guard and shoot jumpers, tim tebow should not be running like vick in his prime or throwing like peyton manning, wes welker should not be catching like megatron or randy moss, a team like the Milwaukee bucks should not be playing like the LA Clippers, a weak defensive team like the redskins should not be shut down the broncos as if they were the seahawks.

Now how about actually going out and playing the game. How realistic should it be? Should we be both players and coaches having to strategies and then execute the strategy? And how deel should this aspect be? We have this to an extent in games already. But how much more realisitc can we get before games require a level of sports IQ that a lot of fans do not have. There is a difference between a sports fan and an aficionado. There is a reason many of us are not pro athletes and coaches. When do we know when a game is the perfect amount of realistic simulation.

I agree with those that say their should be options and slidrrs within games to determine this. 2k for example has the ability to change from arcade or casual, normal, and sim. The sim feature might not be sim enough for people but the option is there. I am not against realism and simulation but I dont want it to come at the cost of fun. At the end of the day I am playing a game for the entertainment. If I am playing a sports game and it is more frustrating than fun because I don't possess enough IQ for that particular sport to succeed then I would be incapable of enjoying sports games.

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Old 06-21-2014, 08:45 PM   #12
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I have to respectfully downright disagree with this article. Realism is essential. I believe you're going to extremes when you bring up examples of actually having to hit a 95 mph pitch. Simulation and realism aren't the same thing in my opinion. However, simulation needs realism. For example, the difference between a changeup and 99mph fastball in the show is definitely felt. Obviously, it's not real, and I'm not really truely experiencing what it's like to crush a fastball from Aroldis Chapman. Also, we should not just settle for incremental improvements unless the game has reached a point where it requires new hardware to make a big leap in improvement. The standard example still holds true today, NFL 2k5 vs Madden. Madden should not be incrementally improving....it yet does not have the base NFL 2k5 had presentation wise and gameplay wise...and it's a decade removed! One has to wonder why EA didn't simply just copy the advancements 2k had made with NFL 2k5, a game that was ahead of its time. The point of simulation gaming I believe is to be as realistic as possible presentation wise and gameplay wise in terms of feel and physics of the IN-GAME action. "Mimicking" is a good word you brought up. If anything, developers should just announce sliders they recommend for simulation and arcade styles of play. I prefer they make a separate game for arcade players like The Bigs and Blitz, but that probably won't happen again. I feel like this article is asking us to settle, and I believe we shouldn't. I enjoy MLB The Show and NBA 2k because I feel their the most accurate simulation of their respective sport. Of course there are areas to improve, but they probably have the right to do incremental improvements being that they're on great foundations. Still, I'm wondering where's The Show's version of MVP's Owner Mode, and was happy when 2k introduced international teams. Madden, however, no. There are just obvious aspects and features that should be in sports games right now that it does not have for reasons unknown and Madden deserves no slack. It's a huge franchise despite it's lack to improve greatly and be true to simulation aspects (despite them calling it a football simulation) so it makes me wonder where that $ goes and whether it's properly being invested for next year's title.
Im with this guy! Im not happy playing a game that I can win n score 50pts every game. Fun to me is having bad games but because it is sim not because it is a broken game. Madden has most always been about exploits and arcadey tactics. A sim/realistic game to me is just about having whats suppose to be in the game, be in the game. Make sliders work or like others said make arcade mode or make another NFL street type game with cones and big words that pop up on the screen ect. So to give games a pass and say well its as good as we are going to get, is foolish imo! Settling for mediocrity is weak and allowing a company to turn the game I love (NFL) into a sham is not my idea of fun.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:53 PM   #13
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Re: The Great White Whale of Sports Gaming: Realism

Everyone should go back to playing NFL2k5 then.

Everyone seems to know exactly what they are going to get before even playing it, so just go back to your PS2 and have a nice day.

I can bet almost 99% of people who come on here and compiling about Madden, or any other game for that matter, will STILL buy the game.

And if course come on here and bog down message boards with complaints.

I dare you to not buy it.

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Old 06-21-2014, 09:05 PM   #14
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Re: The Great White Whale of Sports Gaming: Realism

And to me, realism is either being a single player player lock style and playing all games as just him...or being a coach and watching the game and game plan unfold with adjustments, or being a GM or owner and controlling only the front office moves and watching or simming games.

People scream for realism but want to control ever aspect of everything. That doesn't happen in real life, so why would someone SO hellbent on realism think that is realistic?

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Old 06-21-2014, 09:30 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dukebeatsuncagain
Everyone should go back to playing NFL2k5 then.

Everyone seems to know exactly what they are going to get before even playing it, so just go back to your PS2 and have a nice day.

I can bet almost 99% of people who come on here and compiling about Madden, or any other game for that matter, will STILL buy the game.

And if course come on here and bog down message boards with complaints.

I dare you to not buy it.

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Haven't bought it Madden since Madden 08. Not even a little bit of temptation.
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:09 PM   #16
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I want it. I want it. I WANT IT. I true to life realism. It will eliminate game developers from catering so much to novice crowds and focus on hardcore fans AND I guess for the purposes of this discussion-on the intricate details hardcore fans will notice.

When I play a Nascar game, I want to apply the brake when I enter the turn, NOT just left of the gas button. I want it to be difficult on the hardest setting. Im not the best car out there just because I know how to play the game.

When I play a basketball game, I want it to be damn near impossible to defend Kobe in isolation. I want it to be hard to finish at the rim vs Roy Hibbert. I want Lebron to bully me. But I also want to feel a little un-guardable when I use AND understand how to use Kevin Durant.

When I play Madden (I would say "football game" but... you know) I want to get mad because Tom Brady/Peyton Manning take long drives by completing 2-6 yr pass plays. I want to take advantage of a bad CB cheating and guessing on routes.

Basically, if the game is giving me realistic results from realistic options, even a game that's challenging, it engages me more in the experience. It teaches me the sport, and makes me love why I succeeded when I succeed.

Some gamers say "I want Madden to be realistic" but get mad when they get picked because they throw into a trap coverage. Or mad when they cant make an open top-of-the-key 3pt shot with a corner specialist.

I love details. I love realism. I can hang. There are people like me who can hang. #GiveItToMe
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